Ranger tips

[Piotr]

Hi, so first of all, im classic RPG & d&d noob, but I started Original campaign as ranger because of animal companion (which i still didnt get). Im after first boss, intellect eater and feeling that my character is bit weak and its weird because beginning should be easy from what i've heard. I had to skip these mages in prison because they were too tough. Even my companion (that cleric from first tavern) has MUCH higher dmg than me.
So either my equipement is bad (and i dont think that i can get anything better so early on) or my build simply sucks. I believe i took recommended stats, so dex 18 and strength (15 because +1 on 4th lvl) and condition 11 which is lower than in ranger guides i found in web. I also took weapon specialization long swords, but it should be fine.

Now to the main points:
Will be later game viable with this char or better to start over with more melee ranger? Because dex is for ranged weapons and from my experience ranged weapons are rather useless here.
Also will these 2 more points in strength change game that much?
Or why my damage is so low (~4 per attack)?
Also dual wielding affects hit accuracy? I noticed most of my hits are missed.

[Alessondria]

2 points in strength will add a +1 base chance to hit with melee based attacks, which is +5% for a base D20 system. Your class's Base Attack Bonus also gets added to that roll so specializing in weapons will increase it, and duel wielding will cause a negative to your BAB if you do not take the proper feats to negate it but you still will get a slight hit if your offhand is a medium category weapon (without other feats), so that would be dual long swords vs a long sword and dirk.

You'll just wanna focus on that style of build with your choices. Basic spells like Bulls Strength are going to add +4 magical boost (unstacking with other enchantment bonuses) to that score. Cats Grace for dex enchantment which are your basic bread and butter buffs. Those can get disenchanted though and have duration so a enchanted item that gives you a +4 str will be better then using spells constantly... but again they wont stack (so a +4 ring and a +5 gauntlet will only give you a +5, not a 9)

That guide build prob wants you to take a feat that will convert attribute hit chance to dex for most melee instead of using strength, if I had to guess. Which is, you guessed it, another feat. Rangers in that specialization may get those at certain levels. The strength stat for weapons still uses that modifier to calculate extra damage, I believe.

If you got a higher dex right now use a bow as they are dex based. In a few levels you can do melee when you have some feats to support that style. That's my advice.

[DrLoboto]

What type of armor are you wearing?

Check out the wiki article on Dual-wield[nwn.fandom.com].

As you can see, in general, if you're not trained in this fighting style, you'll get penalties to accuracy up to -10! And even if you're fully trained in it (which costs two feats, Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting) and you use a lighter weapon in the off-hand, there will still be a small penalty of -2/-2 compared to fighting with only one weapon.

Now, a ranger automatically gets the Dual-wield feat which is Ambidexterity + Two-Weapon Fighting combined, so that's great, but it only works if you're wearing light armor. If you put on medium armor, you lose all the benefits of Dual-wield and would get the heavy penalties as explained above. If you did that, that would definitely explain all the misses.

[allenayen96]

Strength stacks. My sorcerer used Belt of Hill Giant Strength and Amulet of The Red Tiger Tribe. He also used Bracer of Armor (AC armor modifier) and Ring of Protection (AC Deflection)
On magic items always read the description

[Flowing breeze]

Автор сообщения: DrLoboto

What type of armor are you wearing?

Check out the wiki article on Dual-wield[nwn.fandom.com].

As you can see, in general, if you're not trained in this fighting style, you'll get penalties to accuracy up to -10! And even if you're fully trained in it (which costs two feats, Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting) and you use a lighter weapon in the off-hand, there will still be a small penalty of -2/-2 compared to fighting with only one weapon.

Now, a ranger automatically gets the Dual-wield feat which is Ambidexterity + Two-Weapon Fighting combined, so that's great, but it only works if you're wearing light armor. If you put on medium armor, you lose all the benefits of Dual-wield and would get the heavy penalties as explained above. If you did that, that would definitely explain all the misses.

Doesn't dual wield use weapon finesse as well. In which case it uses the dexterity modifier for attack rolls instead of the strength

For the Oirg post

For range weapons like longbow
Higher Dexterity makes sure you hit the target
BAB increases your shots per round
I think your damage from arrows is limited to the arrow you use and your bow
Make sure to get the composite longbow (with Mighty) which gives you addtl damage from your strength and use bows with elements for addtl damage

Not sure if going ranged is a good idea for OC, but Arcane Archer is good for HoU

I just recently started NWN since summer sale so for those old veterans feel free to correct what I'm saying. Thanks

[Piotr]

Thanks for help everyone, for now I'll try to find composite longbow as you recommended, to check how is it playing with it. And yeah, I was using medium armor, I'll change it very soon and then try to dual wield too.
Few more questions

Автор сообщения: Alessondria

You'll just wanna focus on that style of build with your choices. Basic spells like Bulls Strength are going to add +4 magical boost (unstacking with other enchantment bonuses) to that score. Cats Grace for dex enchantment which are your basic bread and butter buffs. Those can get disenchanted though and have duration so a enchanted item that gives you a +4 str will be better then using spells constantly... but again they wont stack (so a +4 ring and a +5 gauntlet will only give you a +5, not a 9)

Isnt Bull's strength other class spell than ranger? I don't mind enchanting every bigger fight, because these random fights are viable even without it.

Another question: what exactly is "Maximum dexterity bonus"? I checked in Google, but still don't understand, It's bonus to armor depending how high is my dexterity? If yes, then why people said I'm better without armor if this stat is high?

Last one: if I understood well, I'm supposed to use long sword in first hand and some sort of dagger etc in off-hand?

[DrLoboto]

You have to distinguish between DEX bonus and "max DEX bonus". DEX bonus is great, "max DEX bonus" on armor is a limitation. The heavier the armor is, the lower the "max DEX bonus" allowed, so if the max is 4 but your actual DEX bonus is 6 already, it means while wearing this armor your DEX bonus will decrease to 4 and anything over the max will not count for several things involving protection and dexterous movement. That's why wearing heavier armor can be worse, because it limits your DEX bonus to what is displayed as "max" in the armor description.

[DrLoboto]

It seems you're right about Bull's Strength, but you can still find and use it as a potion.

For the question about a lighter weapon in the off-hand, see this article[nwn.fandom.com], and the one about weapons size[nwn.fandom.com].


And if you're at it and you haven't done so yet, you could also check out the article about ranger[nwn.fandom.com] in general. The NWN Wiki is a very helpful resource for answering most of the question you might have. (But don't hesitate to ask here either!)

[Piotr]

Автор сообщения: DrLoboto

You have to distinguish between DEX bonus and "max DEX bonus". DEX bonus is great, "max DEX bonus" on armor is a limitation. The heavier the armor is, the lower the "max DEX bonus" allowed, so if the max is 4 but your actual DEX bonus is 6 already, it means wearing this armor will decrease it to 4 and anything over the max will not count for several things involving protection and dexterous movement. That's why heavier armor can be worse, because it limits your DEX bonus to what is displayed as "max" in the armor description.

So if I have 18 dex then I'm supposed to walk without armor? Because lightest armor available has 9 max dex bonus, so my dex with it will count as 9? Or am I supposed to wear mage robes etc maybe?
Or I don't have to care too much, because it doesn't limit my chance attack and I don't care about stealth?

Edit: nevermind, I just read it again and I got it, its limit for DEX bonus, not DEX. Thanks again, I know what to do now

[DrLoboto]

Автор сообщения: cold dimensions

So if I have 18 dex then I'm supposed to walk without armor? Because lightest armor available has 9 max dex bonus, so my dex with it will count as 9? Or am I supposed to wear mage robes etc maybe?

No, you misunderstood. I guess it can be confusing. It means maximum "DEX bonus", not maximum "DEX". If you have DEX 18, your bonus would be +4. So if you'd wear an armor with "max DEX bonus" lower than 4 (e.g. 2), your bonus would decrease (in this example: as if you only had DEX 14).

If you don't care for stealth, I think the DEX bonus mainly affects your armor class (which could then be higher without armor than with a heavy suit, if your bonus is high) and maneuvers from feats like Dodge or skills like Tumble. Naturally, even a dexterous character will be hindered in their Dexterity when wearing heavy armor.

You're correct in that the "max DEX bonus" will not limit your chances of attack though, even if you use Weapon Finesse.

If your DEX bonus is higher than 9, you could use robes or regular clothing, if you don't want the bonus to get limited.

EDIT: I see you already figured it out yourself!

[Piotr]

Thanks again, I tried with light armor, now chance for hit is higher, but I feel my damage is still super low compared to my companion cleric (I have ~5-7 dmg and my companion over 10). Dual wielding means that damage shown on screen more often appears (there is more hits per round) or is it same attack rate, but higher damage per attack? I also tried longbow and seems it's not much worse than dual wielding current weapons.
I have no idea in which direction should i develop my character, bows or dual wielding... I heard bows are not that useful in Official Campaign, so probably dual wielding, but like I said, for now I don't see difference between them and melee weapons. I can't even defeat that big spider in Beggar's Nest basement.

Soon I can get another feat (I'm close to 5th lvl), which one would you recommend?

[DrLoboto]

Do you see something about damage reduction / blockage in the combat info? That can be a factor, too. For example, a monster may be resistant to slashing damage but not to bludgeoning damage, which would result in your blade weapons doing less damage than the cleric's blunt weapons. Just a thought.

[rob_easom]

I am not sure if you get a animal companion but surely they are only summons so you may need to know the spell to summon it. If you having trouble in fighting I would use someone a little more durable than the cleric. Like Grimnaw he is pretty much a tank and this means you can hang back and use ranged weapons and a small melee weapon for if anyone comes for you. I have used ,multiple classes and never found the bard or the cleric any good but Grimnaw and Tomi are my go to companions

[Piotr]

Автор сообщения: DrLoboto

Do you see something about damage reduction / blockage in the combat info? That can be a factor, too. For example, a monster may be resistant to slashing damage but not to bludgeoning damage, which would result in your blade weapons doing less damage than the cleric's blunt weapons. Just a thought.

Nope, it shows only straigth damage which is usually around 4-10 (mostly 4-7). I'm not sure if its per one attack or per both attacks (dual wielding)

Автор сообщения: rob_easom

I am not sure if you get a animal companion but surely they are only summons so you may need to know the spell to summon it. If you having trouble in fighting I would use someone a little more durable than the cleric. Like Grimnaw he is pretty much a tank and this means you can hang back and use ranged weapons and a small melee weapon for if anyone comes for you. I have used ,multiple classes and never found the bard or the cleric any good but Grimnaw and Tomi are my go to companions

I'll get animal companion next level, so should be easier, about companion I'll try it.
Do you think Daelan will be fine too? I'd prefer to play with someone who has good alignment

[rob_easom]

Never used him but the brilliant things about Rpgs is there is no right or wrong answer. Pick who you feel but before you finish the chapter make sure you complete all the henchmen side quests as you can get some nice perks on some of there gifts.

[wendigo211]

The 3.0 (The edition which NWN uses) Ranger is a complete mess. WotC just didn't know what they wanted from the class. The 2nd edition and earlier Ranger was the LotR Ranger (e.g. Aragorn), The 3rd edition Ranger tried to be Aragorn and Drizzt, the 3.5 Ranger added Robin Hood to the mix, and the whole package ended up being jack of all trades in a system that rewards specialists.

Looking at the NWN Ranger:

• It gets the dual wield feats for free while it's wearing light armor. You'll want at least a 14 dex to wear light armor and you only need a 15 dex to get all three feats, so just make a Fighter with a 15 dex who can use their bonus feats to pick up TWF, Ambidexterity and ITWF and wear any armor they want.
  
• They have a good skill list, but only 4 skill points per level. Also, while they have good stealth bonuses, they don't have sneak attack bonuses to capitalise on stealth, so you're better off going Rogue if you want a skill monkey.
  
• They get spells from the Druid spell list. Unfortunately, that spell list is low on buffs (I think they only get Aid and Blade Thirst) and their wisdom is never going to be high enough to consistently land their CC spells. Camouflage is about the only useful spell they have.
  
• On the bright side: They get d10 hitdice, martial weapons and proficiency in light and medium armor.
  
• Favored Enemy is okay if you're playing a module with only a few enemy types (e.g. an Undead heavy module). Bane of Enemies is a pretty good upgrade to it, but probably not worth investing 20+ levels in the class.
  
• They also get an animal companion. If falls off at higher levels, but the panther, buffed with Greater Magic Fang, does good damage if you can keep the enemies off of it, and get it flanking the same target you're attacking.

Having typed all that, if you are playing a Ranger, I suggest going for melee damage. Get heavy armor proficiency, forget about dual wielding and just grab a two-handed weapon and the power attack feats. Works well for the official campaigns and you still get mileage from the Animal Companion and Favored Enemy. Starting stats, for a Human, should be something like STR 16, CON 14, DEX 10, INT 14, WIS 14, CHA 8 and just increase STR every 4 levels.

Alternatively, you can go the archery route, but if you do that you need Arcane Archer. I'd probably do something like an Elf Ranger 3/Wizard 8/Arcane Archer 9, by level 20.