My Friend says NWN is a Hack & Slay Game :D How wrong is he?

[pza]

My Friend says NWN is a Hack & Slay Game :D How Wrong is he? Im writing these thread to teach my friend better. Cause we kinda had a friendly fight about it..

I told him Baldurs Gate is the Daddy of NWN, Pillars of Eternity and Dragon Age. AND HE HIGHLY DISAGREES and says NWN is Hack and Slay and has nothing to do with Baldurs Gate.

What do you think about this? Is NWN a Hack & Slay? :D CAUSE THATS WHAT HES SAYING! (Wikipedia or the Steam Store disagrees) I mean, i know the answer.. I just want to tell him with this thread how wrong he is..

He acts like it has nothing to do with Baldurs Gate and is just a stupid Hack and Slay, without any substance (Even if he seems to like it). Not only that! But he also acts like Pillars of Eternity is a totaly different Game than Baldurs Gate.

Can you please teach him otherwise!? I will send him this thread.

I get some of his points.. Yes NWN was mondernized. Only 1 other Hero and you couldnt even fully controll him. Yes the original had less text and less choices. But its still the next step in the Evolution of Baldurs Gate. Then there are the Addons.. Its a long time ago but arent the Addons full of giant Textwalls and Choices you could make?? Not even speaking about the huge Modding Community, that made extremely creative Mods, with a huge importance of choices and choosing the "right" things. I even made my own mods and ive learned back then that its not a good NWN-Mod only because i put weapons and monsters in.. I had to learn how to create Quests and how to create Quests with Choices.

Then theres Dragon Age... Yes modernized again! Nobody is doubting that! But you still had choices and your party was way bigger than in NWN again, and you even could controll how much your team liked you. Even here he disagrees.. Acts like Baldurs Gate is also not the Father of Dragon Age.

But to say Pillars of Eternity is not Baldurs Gates Son WTF? :D THATS THE CRAZIEST THING IVE HEARD! Its literally 99% influenced by Baldurs Gate.

I dont even like Hack and Slay Games.. Nowhere on the internet its called Hack and Slay.

I have to be fair tho.. I played the Addons of NWN again later, but the story of standart NWN was also´hugely important right? Theres not H&S where the story is so deep, starting with the pest ridden city and stuff... And werent there even small places in the wildernis everywhere, where you had so many options to choose from?

I just played Baldurs Gate 1 + 2 around 3 Years ago. I think hes just to old to remember and might have played NWN without reading any texts ;) At least thats my only explination i got. So correct me if im wrong cause the main NWN campaign happened a long time ago for me. I could be partially wrong also. Im not ignorant. I just think hes soo wrong.. But maybe i remember it badly too..

AND THE CRAZIEST: HE DOESNT EVEN COMPARE OTHER cRPGS like ICEWIND DALE to Baldurs Gate. He acts like it has nothing to do with each other... i mean: COME ON! PLEASE PUT SOME REASONING INTO THIS GUYS MIND! :D

So i will keep the question neutral: How wrong is he about all of this stuff? Or do you think theres at least a point of truth in it? (Again: Nobody is doubting that things in these games were different, it was modernized, but how does that make it a Hack and Slay because of that!?

PS: Sure Dungeons and Dragons Games would also have happened without Baldurs Gate too at some later point. But thats not the point here!

Im also open to critique of my own opinion. But saying Icewind Dale is not Baldurs Gates direct son is INSANE!

[id795078477]

NWN1 has thousands of modules. Calling NWN1 hack-n-slash is like calling a restaurant spicy just because it serves some wasabi as the seasoning for one of its dishes on the menu once a week.

BG1 and 2 were made before NWN1, but it doesn't make them "daddy" of it, those are just different games. And I also didn't notice BG1 and 2 living and staying relevant more than two decades since release as NWN1 does now (as much as I respect both BG1 and 2)

If you like BG1 and 2 and whatever came before NWN1 (or after) more than NWN1 - that's fine, if that's your cup of tea. Those game (not) existing and (not) being successful bears little meaning to this one.

I personally don't think there's a CRPG remotely close to NWN1 qualities. Not before, not after. The only thing NWN1 doesn't have is modern graphical fidelity. But that's a small thing to overlook for those seeking a real quality game. But - big disclaimer - I include both multi-player and community content into the pack when I assess said CRPGs.

[themazingness]

The D&D games I would call hack 'n slash are DDO, Dungeon Hack, Neverwinter, the Dark Alliance games, etc. It isn't hack 'n slash if it isn't real time combat with active input. I wish NWN was active combat. Slow dancing in circles while you take turns really got on my nerves at first. Having haste helps, but it still is relatively slow.

Neverwinter Nights' has a lot of dungeon crawling though. Maybe that's what you friend means? Even if so, that varies a lot from module to module.

[Yoinkyz]

he is trolling you. win the argument by beating his ass

[Hystorm]

They are either morons or just trying to puff you up...

[pza]

When im saying Icewind Dale or Pillars is "the Son of Baldurs Gate" I mean Baldurs Gate was the first game doing it like that, on a scale like that, for a huge amount of people.

BTW: Im not a BG Purist. Dragon Age is my favorite kind of these games.

@TheMagazinNess I just dont understand why you would call it Hack and Slash.. But its a long time ago i played the original. Couldnt you choose difficulties? On higher difficulties there were some challenging fights (Like right before Rifton) as far as i can remember. And there were choices right? Textwalls with meanings right? Also a bunch of magic still.. Hack and Slash Games dont have a deeper story or meanings or Choices.. And sooo many people love NWN because its story and worldbuilding is so interesting. Tell me a single H&S that has that? I dont even think diablo has that even the slightest.. Thats why i dont really like this kinda games. And come on.. The Addons had so much text, that it even annoyed me at times. At least at the beginning.

But like ive said.. I just had a conversation with him. This is not about me wanting to be right. I Just didnt understand how he could not get it.. So like ive said: Still open for corrections! But please with good reasons!

BTW @yikes and @highstorm: Hes DEFINITELY not trolling ;) I know him very well and hes not a troll. We both at a certain age and we have our fun discussing but we tend to talk serious about stuff like that.

This is my last longer text. But i think my memory is good enough to know.. YES! NWN made a lot of thinks easier. Especially the only 1 Comrade in your "team". And yes there were some Hack&Slay Dungeons. But they also existed in BG!

But okay im done writing! ;) Would be happy for a few more answers and opinions! I dont wanna "win" this conversation or "be right just to be right". Im just 99% sure hes factually wrong and the only reason i cant say 100% is because NWNs standart campaign happended so long ago for me.. But like you guys said absolutly correctly.. Theres so much more to NWN than that..

[themazingness]

Originally posted by pza:

@TheMagazinNess I just dont understand why you would call it Hack and Slash.. But its a long time ago i played the original. Couldnt you choose difficulties? On higher difficulties there were some challenging fights (Like right before Rifton) as far as i can remember. And there were choices right? Textwalls with meanings right? Also a bunch of magic still.. Hack and Slash Games dont have a deeper story or meanings or Choices.. And sooo many people love NWN because its story and worldbuilding is so interesting. Tell me a single H&S that has that? I dont even think diablo has that even the slightest.. Thats why i dont really like this kinda games. And come on.. The Addons had so much text, that it even annoyed me at times. At least at the beginning.

But like ive said.. I just had a conversation with him. This is not about me wanting to be right. I Just didnt understand how he could not get it.. So like ive said: Still open for corrections! But please with good reasons!

I'm saying I wouldn't call Neverwinter Nights that. Difficulty selection has nothing to do with it. That's just a feature a lot of D&D games have whether Hack 'n Slash or otherwise. Baldur's Gate has difficulty settings but isn't Hack 'n Slash. Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance has difficulty settings and is Hack 'n Slash. A Hack 'n Slash game has real time, action based combat. And most of the time it has very little role playing.

[pza]

Originally posted by themazingness:

I'm saying I wouldn't call Neverwinter Nights that. Difficulty selection has nothing to do with it. That's just a feature a lot of D&D games have whether Hack 'n Slash or otherwise. Baldur's Gate has difficulty settings but isn't Hack 'n Slash. Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance has difficulty settings and is Hack 'n Slash. A Hack 'n Slash game has real time, action based combat. And most of the time it has very little role playing.

Oh so it being real time also makes it a hack and slay for you? ;) Okay i strongly disagree and i dont understand your answer..

But i accept your opinion, even when youre factually wrong. Real Time fighting is normal in all modern crpgs.. Baldurs Gate has Real Time Action Based Combat. Plus you able to kill all enemys in some dungeons only with swords, shields, bows, and ammunition, even without the need to cast spells or talk so anyone. So is that a hack and slay for you too?

Can you explain to me what a RPG is for you then? A non hack and slash RPG? Give me examples! Its not only a Roleplaying Game when its GTA Roleplay Bro! ;) I guess Age of Decadence is the only real RPG for you then?

https://store.steampowered.com/app/230070/The_Age_of_Decadence/

If your standarts are so high and you didnt play it: Great game btw! Here the choices are DEEEEP! And i mean super-deep! With most heroes you wont even fight 1 Enemy in Combat if you dont want too! And the story goes totaly different for everyone! Not only the ending! You should look into it! ;) I would like to hear a real definition from you, cause all of them you gave, can also be RPGs. I guess for you its only tabletop and NWN multiplayer sessions!?

But like ive said: Agreed to disagree! Its your opinion and i accept it. But like you see.. Even in this thread its 4:1 against you and no site on the internet calls it a Hack & Slash! Do you at least have a different opinion with a lot of user created campaigns and the addons?

[themazingness]

Originally posted by pza:

Originally posted by themazingness:

I'm saying I wouldn't call Neverwinter Nights that. Difficulty selection has nothing to do with it. That's just a feature a lot of D&D games have whether Hack 'n Slash or otherwise. Baldur's Gate has difficulty settings but isn't Hack 'n Slash. Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance has difficulty settings and is Hack 'n Slash. A Hack 'n Slash game has real time, action based combat. And most of the time it has very little role playing.

Oh so it being real time also makes it a hack and slay for you? ;)

That's not what I said, but no big deal. I can see this is going nowhere, especially since you still don't understand I'm saying Neverwinter Nights is NOT a hack 'n slash, neither the examples you are giving. I can see why you're at odds with your friend though if you need to be argumentative with somebody on your side.

[pza]

Originally posted by themazingness:

That's not what I said, but no big deal. I can see this is going nowhere, especially since you still don't understand I'm saying Neverwinter Nights is NOT a hack 'n slash, neither the examples you are giving. I can see why you're at odds with your friend though if you need to be argumentative with somebody on your side.

OOhhh i get it now.. I think this is a big missunderstanding.

I talked to you like that cause you said "Neverwinter is a Hack & Slash"!

But i guess you ment the multiplayer and not NWN, right?

Then it all makes sense, i totaly agree with you and you actually on my site.

But im sure you understand why that was confusing to me in a NWN forum!?

[themazingness]

Originally posted by pza:

Originally posted by themazingness:

That's not what I said, but no big deal. I can see this is going nowhere, especially since you still don't understand I'm saying Neverwinter Nights is NOT a hack 'n slash, neither the examples you are giving. I can see why you're at odds with your friend though if you need to be argumentative with somebody on your side.

OOhhh i get it now.. I think this is a big missunderstanding.

I talked to you like that cause you said "Neverwinter is a Hack & Slash"!

I literally never said that and have been saying the opposite.

[pza]

Originally posted by themazingness:

I literally never said that and have been saying the opposite.

???

Originally posted by themazingness:

The D&D games I would call hack 'n slash are DDO, Dungeon Hack, Neverwinter, the Dark Alliance games, etc.

!!!

[themazingness]

Originally posted by pza:

Originally posted by themazingness:

I literally never said that and have been saying the opposite.

???

Originally posted by themazingness:

The D&D games I would call hack 'n slash are DDO, Dungeon Hack, Neverwinter, the Dark Alliance games, etc.

!!!

Neverwinter is an action combat MMO. It isn't this game.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/109600/Neverwinter/

[pza]

yes thats why i said its a missunderstanding

you should clarify that in a NWN forum, when you just say neverwinter

but okay, we agree with each other and thats all that matters! whatever happened isnt important, cause its cleared up now ;)

so i wish you a happy rest of the week my friend!

[themazingness]

You too :)

I also mentioned this which is an example of a Hack 'n Slash, more so than the Neverwinter MMO. I could see that as a point of confusion. Baldur's Gate is not a Hack 'n Slash, but this game is: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1695830/Baldurs_Gate_Dark_Alliance/

[pza]

Yeah ive heard of it! Thats why im not interested haha..

The only H&S ive finished was Torchlight II, but only because i had a bunch of my own music to listen to in the background! Besides that its pretty boring..

Just started BG3 today and im absolutly amazed how great it is so far!