Chapter 2 Port Llast Bounty Hunt and the alignment penalty

[Ragnarøk]

I don't get it, why killing the half Orc Yesgar during the Bounty Hunt quest earns your character an alignment shift towards evil (-7 points). Normally I wouldn't care, but since my char is a Paladin it actually matters.

According to the in-game dialogues, I found out, that Yesgar convinced Shaldrissa to go with him by making her drunk. Her father claims, she was kidnapped, which isn't entirely true. But the half Orc took advantage of the naivety of the young woman.

Yesgar himself reveals after a successful speech/convincing check that he gave her that much alcohol, so that she agreed to everything he proposed to her.
Shaldrissa tells your character after being freed, how she was mistreated and beaten by Yesgar and he most likely raped her (“she doesn’t want to talk about it further, but says: “he did things to me…”). She is clearly ashamed.

So if you decide to kill Yesgar after all , as some kind of quick frontier justice, you get an alignment shift towards evil. I really don’t get this and the strange moral compass of the original developers.

First of all, this half Orc is an escaped prisoner and criminal , secondly he hid in a cave with a band of aggressive Orcs – most likely up for no good, planning to pillage and plunder as Orcs do . Thirdly at least he took advantage of the naivety of Shaldrissa (her going with him deliberately or not deliberately in the first place doesn’t matter at this point), made her drunk, beat her and raped her. She also is held as a captive in a cell.

Therefore Yesgar is an evil character for me and not letting him go, but punishing him on the spot is a good deed as a Paladin. The alignment penalty bothers me, because I think it's very much undeserved.

[Shiroi Ren]

I do not actually remember but... If I remember right, Yesgar was actually backstabbed by girl... If you kill the girl you will get to read her memo or journal or something like this.

[Ragnarøk]

Originally posted by Shiroi Ren:

I do not actually remember but... If I remember right, Yesgar was actually backstabbed by girl... If you kill the girl you will get to read her memo or journal or something like this.

Well, I checked again according to your information. When killing her (not going to do that as a Paladin without a reason, just for the purpose of checking I did and reloaded afterwards), she got a journal, where she reveals that she fell in love with the half Orc and wanted to blackmail her father to give her the dowry by kidnapping people. That was the original plan.
She actually didn't backstab Yesgar, but the Orc still mistreated her, as soon she was in his hideout in the mines of Port Llast. When you find her, she is locked up in a cell.
So she might have been an accomplice in the first place, but soon enough regretted it, to team up with the half Orc.

For deciding the fate of Yesgar it actually doesn't matter if Shaldrissa went with him willingly in the first place or not. She is a rather dubious character anyway and got herself into bad company.
In the end, it doesn't matter much. Because Yesgar isn't a good person, but an escaped convict, a criminal up to no good and I don't think it's justified to let him go and spare him just like that. There shouldn't be an alignment penalty for killing him for his bounty.

[Wizard of Woz]

The reason is because you are killing him. A Paladin would bring him to jail for justice.

[Tesseract]

Just wait for a certain part of Wyvern Crown of Cormyr, where not killing a prisoner on the spot, after they surrendered to you, gives you an alignment shift towards evil. Thought you would drag them back to stand trial? Nope, sorry, your choices are killing a helpless prisoner or just letting them go.

[themazingness]

Convicts shouldn't be murdered just because they're sketchy, especially if a love interest is making up stuff about them. That's definitely a matter for the justice system.

[Valden21]

You're a paladin, and the person giving out the bounty is a legitimate authority figure within Port Last. Therefore, you need to bring the bounty targets in if at all possible. The alignment penalty is not because you did something evil, but because you chose to kill Yesgar right there. Since doing so right there is a violation of local authority, it's an act of Chaos, not Law.

[Gold Dragon]

I kill only 3 regularly. The Minotaur, Yesgar, and the Baby killing Gnome. The first two are considered too dangerous, and.... well..... one probably shouldn't go around stating you killed babies.......... just saying.....

Also, I do agree with Valden above, except.... the bounty is for the ear alone, and you are even encouraged to kill them all (Waterdeep doesn't want them back)

[JustMonika]

Killing helpless individuals is typically regarded as evil within DnD's imperfect alignment system.

[allenayen96]

I play as a sorcerer and I didn't get an alignment shift.

[Shiroi Ren]

Originally posted by JustMonika:

Killing helpless individuals is typically regarded as evil within DnD's imperfect alignment system.

IRL as well. At least without trial.

[JediKnightSky]

Originally posted by Ragnarøk:

I don't get it, why killing the half Orc Yesgar during the Bounty Hunt quest earns your character an alignment shift towards evil (-7 points). Normally I wouldn't care, but since my char is a Paladin it actually matters.

According to the in-game dialogues, I found out, that Yesgar convinced Shaldrissa to go with him by making her drunk. Her father claims, she was kidnapped, which isn't entirely true. But the half Orc took advantage of the naivety of the young woman.

Yesgar himself reveals after a successful speech/convincing check that he gave her that much alcohol, so that she agreed to everything he proposed to her.
Shaldrissa tells your character after being freed, how she was mistreated and beaten by Yesgar and he most likely raped her (“she doesn’t want to talk about it further, but says: “he did things to me…”). She is clearly ashamed.

So if you decide to kill Yesgar after all :Stab:, as some kind of quick frontier justice, you get an alignment shift towards evil. I really don’t get this and the strange moral compass of the original developers.

First of all, this half Orc is an escaped prisoner and criminal :imprison:, secondly he hid in a cave with a band of aggressive Orcs – most likely up for no good, planning to pillage and plunder as Orcs do :ironaxe:. Thirdly at least he took advantage of the naivety of Shaldrissa (her going with him deliberately or not deliberately in the first place doesn’t matter at this point), made her drunk, beat her and raped her. She also is held as a captive in a cell.

Therefore Yesgar is an evil character for me and not letting him go, but punishing him on the spot is a good deed as a Paladin. The alignment penalty bothers me, because I think it's very much undeserved.

I am afraid you need to read a few old issues of Dragon Mag about playing a paladin. Now there are ways to RP one that does kill in such encounters, but you need to be Role-Playing a hard core inquisitor type, really pushing the race angle of your god and faith, so you can basically be a genocidal monster while calling yourself a hero.

Otherwise no, killing a helpless being is always an evil act. Hell so is just the mere act of using poison traditionally in D&D. Basically if it is something an Assassin character would do, you as a paladin should likely not do it,

Hence why I play a Bard/Assassin/Shadow Dancer/ Blackguard. More fun to be neutral evil with all the best benefits of a paladin while being a cold blooded neutral evil.

[Valden21]

Originally posted by allenayen96:

I play as a sorcerer and I didn't get an alignment shift.

That's because you're playing as a sorceror. Sorcerors aren't as tied to a specific alignment as paladins are. In every edition up to 4ed, paladins HAVE to be lawful good; that's one of their defining factors.

[allenayen96]

Well, the quest doesn't say that you have to kill them, just get their left ears.

[Valden21]

Originally posted by allenayen96:

Well, the quest doesn't say that you have to kill them, just get their left ears.

Yeah, but not all of them willingly give up the ear.

[allenayen96]

Originally posted by Valden21:

Originally posted by allenayen96:

Well, the quest doesn't say that you have to kill them, just get their left ears.

Yeah, but not all of them willingly give up the ear.

True, you have top kill the one in the Green Dragon Inn. (I think that is its name)