Needs a proper autosave function

[Stromko]

I know people will say 'oh just hit quicksave every now and then, you don't need autosave', but I just read that as 'oh just stop enjoying what you're doing and remember to save every so often', because that's the reality.

I'll be playing a module and having fun tracking down new leads and seeing new content and all that, then something happens where I can't continue, and that's it. The more I enjoyed the module the farther back I'm going to have to reload because that's how long I've been immersed and enjoying the game.

I'm aware that if I launch it as a multiplayer game and just play it alone then the autosave function actually, you know, exists .. but then any time I have to load a save I also have to scroll down the huge list of characters in my local library and remember roughly which version of my character I am now, and just so it will ask me if I want to load that character version from the savefile anyway. It's clumsy.

The enhanced edition is supposed to modernize the game to make it much better to play in the current era, and it's just weird that if you play singleplayer and the module author didn't decide to put autosave checkpoints in, you can lose 100% of your progress in the module because of one bad event.

It happened to me with Siege of Shadowdale's new version and it happened to me again when I was trying out Eye of the Beholder. It wasn't as bad the second time because I did remember to quicksave now and then.. but gosh darnit, I started to have FUN again like a fool, so I forgot, and lost an hour of progress. Didn't feel like retreading it again, redoing the exact same things I already did for 30+ minutes to get back to where I was just isn't fun.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Not sure if this works, but someone recommended it to me:

"Add DoSinglePlayerAutoSave() to the module OnRest script."

in that case the game would always save automatically, whenever you use the rest function. So you won't have to bother about interupting the game everytime saving to prevent sudden losses. You kinda gamified the save system that way, which I prefer actually anyway.

I agree that savefile management should be a thing of the past in modern games, but that's something thats hard to streamline, considering pc players are so attached to it.

[Wizard of Woz]

Originally posted by Stromko:

I know people will say 'oh just hit quicksave every now and then, you don't need autosave', but I just read that as 'oh just stop enjoying what you're doing and remember to save every so often', because that's the reality.

I'll be playing a module and having fun tracking down new leads and seeing new content and all that, then something happens where I can't continue, and that's it. The more I enjoyed the module the farther back I'm going to have to reload because that's how long I've been immersed and enjoying the game.

I'm aware that if I launch it as a multiplayer game and just play it alone then the autosave function actually, you know, exists .. but then any time I have to load a save I also have to scroll down the huge list of characters in my local library and remember roughly which version of my character I am now, and just so it will ask me if I want to load that character version from the savefile anyway. It's clumsy.

The enhanced edition is supposed to modernize the game to make it much better to play in the current era, and it's just weird that if you play singleplayer and the module author didn't decide to put autosave checkpoints in, you can lose 100% of your progress in the module because of one bad event.

It happened to me with Siege of Shadowdale's new version and it happened to me again when I was trying out Eye of the Beholder. It wasn't as bad the second time because I did remember to quicksave now and then.. but gosh darnit, I started to have FUN again like a fool, so I forgot, and lost an hour of progress. Didn't feel like retreading it again, redoing the exact same things I already did for 30+ minutes to get back to where I was just isn't fun.

So what you are saying is that you have no rpg gaming experience, because if you did, you would know how important manually saving is. And if you are too daft or lazy to hit a single key that just sad.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Originally posted by Wizard of Woz:

Originally posted by Stromko:

I know people will say 'oh just hit quicksave every now and then, you don't need autosave', but I just read that as 'oh just stop enjoying what you're doing and remember to save every so often', because that's the reality.

I'll be playing a module and having fun tracking down new leads and seeing new content and all that, then something happens where I can't continue, and that's it. The more I enjoyed the module the farther back I'm going to have to reload because that's how long I've been immersed and enjoying the game.

I'm aware that if I launch it as a multiplayer game and just play it alone then the autosave function actually, you know, exists .. but then any time I have to load a save I also have to scroll down the huge list of characters in my local library and remember roughly which version of my character I am now, and just so it will ask me if I want to load that character version from the savefile anyway. It's clumsy.

The enhanced edition is supposed to modernize the game to make it much better to play in the current era, and it's just weird that if you play singleplayer and the module author didn't decide to put autosave checkpoints in, you can lose 100% of your progress in the module because of one bad event.

It happened to me with Siege of Shadowdale's new version and it happened to me again when I was trying out Eye of the Beholder. It wasn't as bad the second time because I did remember to quicksave now and then.. but gosh darnit, I started to have FUN again like a fool, so I forgot, and lost an hour of progress. Didn't feel like retreading it again, redoing the exact same things I already did for 30+ minutes to get back to where I was just isn't fun.

So what you are saying is that you have no rpg gaming experience, because if you did, you would know how important manually saving is. And if you are too daft or lazy to hit a single key that just sad.

I can totally understand his viewpoint, any time you open up the menu you break immersion, even more so if you constantly save and reload.
You shouldn'T have to care about something like "saving" in a game, this should be task of the developer.

In my honest opinion this kind of approach to pc games seems quite outdated, but people always defend if with saying "crpg's were always like that"

yeah yeah sure sure, you know what always existed too? Lifes in Plattformers and still though they were removed.

Modern games like Elden Ring show you how you make more immersive experiences, make the game save always in the background and remove a failstate that forces you to reload your game. In the context of Neverwinter nights it could be simply the teleport back to the tyr temple which already exists. In that case you could also prevent the allure of savescumming at all, by I know people will defend it religiously. I can only say having to deal with your rolls can be interesting as well.

[Wizard of Woz]

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

Originally posted by Wizard of Woz:

So what you are saying is that you have no rpg gaming experience, because if you did, you would know how important manually saving is. And if you are too daft or lazy to hit a single key that just sad.

I can totally understand his viewpoint, any time you open up the menu you break immersion, even more so if you constantly save and reload.
You shouldn'T have to care about something like "saving" in a game, this should be task of the developer.

In my honest opinion this kind of approach to pc games seems quite outdated, but people always defend if with saying "crpg's were always like that"

yeah yeah sure sure, you know what always existed too? Lifes in Plattformers and still though they were removed.

Modern games like Elden Ring show you how you make more immersive experiences, make the game save always in the background and remove a failstate that forces you to reload your game. In the context of Neverwinter nights it could be simply the teleport back to the tyr temple which already exists. In that case you could also prevent the allure of savescumming at all, by I know people will defend it religiously. I can only say having to deal with your rolls can be interesting as well.

Except most people turn off autosave in rpgs. Also there is no menu opening. There is a guicksave button. Think it is G.

[Bones]

If it is reality that you are looking for, why are you playing a D&D game? Seriously, going off about realism in a game with elves, halflings and magic...

[DrLoboto]

Originally posted by Bones:

If it is reality that you are looking for, why are you playing a D&D game? Seriously, going off about realism in a game with elves, halflings and magic...

I mean, you *can* get immersed in a fantasy world, I'd rather question what makes a resting progress bar or stat and inventory tetris windows with several tabs so more immersive than a quicksave button. ;)

[Shiroi Ren]

If module author forgot to add autosave points... Well, you can ask author to add it. Otherwise, it is possible to make auto-saves on rest and transition in deeper options.

As for emmersive play... If your character died. Just start from the begining. No need for loading aside session pause.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Originally posted by Shiroi Ren:

As for emmersive play... If your character died. Just start from the begining. No need for loading aside session pause.

You would ask player to quit themselves which would be hard to pull to hard off if you are attached to it, for good reason videogames offer permadeath modes so the game does it to you instead.

[DrLoboto]

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

Originally posted by Shiroi Ren:

As for emmersive play... If your character died. Just start from the begining. No need for loading aside session pause.

You would ask player to quit themselves which would be hard to pull to hard off if you are attached to it, for good reason videogames offer permadeath modes so the game does it to you instead.

Better yet, the game should automatically erase itself from your harddrive and make sure you can never install it again, so that you won't run the risk of getting into the same situations and conversations again with a new character, because that would be completely unrealistic and immersion-breaking! ;)

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Originally posted by DrLoboto:

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

You would ask player to quit themselves which would be hard to pull to hard off if you are attached to it, for good reason videogames offer permadeath modes so the game does it to you instead.

Better yet, the game should automatically erase itself from your harddrive and make sure you can never install it again, so that you won't run the risk of getting into the same situations and conversations again with a new character, because that would be completely unrealistic and immersion-breaking! ;)

Well there is a balance to everything. That's why both approaches are not the most ideal in my opinion.

[allenayen96]

I am not sure what immersion is. I can get into the game but I see my keyboard, end table next to my coffee table. I also have the habit of drinking coffee, eating potato chips,etc at the computer. Does this means that I am immersion free?

[DrLoboto]

Originally posted by allenayen96:

I am not sure what immersion is. I can get into the game but I see my keyboard, end table next to my coffee table. I also have the habit of drinking coffee, eating potato chips,etc at the computer. Does this means that I am immersion free?

As Chocos Ramabotti said, there's a balance to everything. Of course, you will never be fully immersed in the game world as if you were there, but I'd say the more you manage to shut out everything else and concentrate on the game, the more immersed you are.

When I play games I'm still totally aware I'm playing a game, of course, that goes without saying, and the screen is still just a rectangle in a room full of distractions, yet I manage to fully concentrate on it and blend out / ignore most of the distractions as long as I'm entertained. Everyone will define immersion and the limits differently for themselves, but personally, for some reason I need the game to fill the screen. I'm not too distracted if the game is framed by the borders of my monitor and the room beyond it, but seeing other non-game parts like the desktop background or the task bar, other apps that I could switch to at all times ON-SCREEN, that would take me out of the game too much somehow, and I would call that (for myself) immersion-breaking. (Game menus don't bother me though.)

[allenayen96]

@DrLoboto
Thanks for the info.

[Dark]

This is a script I made for my Eye of the Beholder mods. It saves on entering a level. We also have some that save after a cut Scene.

// Lets Auto save it for them in-case they don't, and for those
// unavoidable crashes that seem to happen when you least expect it.


void DoSaveGame()
{
object oPC = GetEnteringObject();
AssignCommand(oPC,ClearAllActions());

if(!GetIsPC(oPC))
return;
int nDoOnce = GetLocalInt(OBJECT_SELF, "DO_SAVE_GAME_ONCE");
if(nDoOnce == 1)
return;
SetLocalInt(OBJECT_SELF, "DO_SAVE_GAME_ONCE", 1);
DoSinglePlayerAutoSave();

}

void main()
{
DoSaveGame();

}

[Proleric]

Personally, I would never rely on autosave or quicksave.

I get that some people want to recreate the games console experience, but the ability to make multiple saves manually is a positive benefit of games originally designed for desktop.

In a lengthy RPG campaign like this, if you realise later on that you made a bad decision, there's no way to get back to the decision point if you keep overwriting the autosave. Same applies if you hit a bug or get into a boss fight which lasts many minutes before getting killed.

There's no right or wrong here, but my preference is

• Three manual saves used frequently in rotation to capture current progress
  
• Two different manual saves used in rotation during boss combat
  
• Additional saves of key milestones