Can Anyone Help Me Out? Dragon Disciple Build (New Question Regarding NWN2 2024)

[Evil Tendencies]

Hey everyone! Long time no see. As before, if you decide to respond, don't worry about the length of your comment, I'll be happy to read it.

I didn't see the point of posting another thread so I decided to necro my old one. I also hope my new question here might end up making this thread even more helpful to anyone who is snooping about google with the right use of words about the NWN series. Lets get to it.

In essence, my new question revolves around Neverwinter nights 2, which I know that would be better posted in the gog forums, but I didn't see the harm of asking over here until I get GOG reinstalled. It'll be a while before I get to NWN2 as me and my group are currently planning a run through SCS baldur's gate EE.

But given the amount of issues I see people having with the second game, it looks like I better get on top of things asap rather than wait until we're at the tail end of BG to try and set it up in a hurry. So here are my concerns/questions...

-------
1. Getting Neverwinter nights 2 to work in multiplayer without Jank
The number one issue I see pop up is NWN2 being notoriously difficult to get working on modern hardware in MP without fiddling with ports and otherwise. So after a bit of looking around I found this guide here...

https://www.gog.com/forum/neverwinter_nights_series/nwn2_working_multiplayer_guide

I don't really have much to ask in terms of specifics, as I've yet to do any testing what with being caught up with BG. So this is more me asking for opinions about this link and MP in general if anyone would care to comment. The last comment on the linked thread was from 2024 saying it still works so that is some good news. I'll be playing with two other people (does NWN 2 even support 3 people)? If not is there any mod to change that?

If there are better alternatives to get MP working feel free to post those to as I would appreciate it. I'd also appreciate any additional info about your experience with NWN 2 MP if you have any, whatever I can or should be doing to avoid connection or in-game issues that you think I may otherwise miss.

2. I'm Making Another Red Dragon Disciple

Yup. Just like my run through the original here, I want to make a RDD in NWN2 as well. My previous conversation I had here made me realize that RDD shines as melee, so that's what I'm doing. I should note that I have beaten NWN2 before and while I do believe it has many similarities to the original, I still recall it being an entirely different kind of experience.

From what I understand there are a maximum of 30 levels in the game with DLC included (all of which I believe support mp)? So here are some of my questions.

1. What are some level distributions that would work for a RDD?
One into bard, 10 into RDD and the rest into fighter or barbarian? Stuff like that.

2. What would be some good feats?
I'll figure this stuff and the above out very quickly, but having a reference from people more experienced with the game never hurts.

3. Are there any MP compatible mods I should get to spice things up?
One I downloaded in NWN was simple and made the RDD actually look like a dragon person (it's no issue having my teammates download all the same files).

4. I recall NWN2 not allowing MP teammates the ability to make their own characters? Is that true? And if so, which NPCS do you think would compliment my RDD the most while being fun to play?

Thanks in advance if anyone replies.


------

Original question (Answered)

As an old school DND player, I started playing NWN last night for the first time with a few friends on a private server.

I'd like to make a dragon disciple capable of casting decently high sorcerer spells if possible, but even for someone familiar with DND lore and content like me the amount of information overload is a bit much to digest, especially without a dice roll on creation stats as a fail safe.

The overwhelming information I see seems to suggest bard and fighter levels. Even so, if anyone has any recommendations I wouldn't be adverse to it.

I've already followed this build to a point https://nwn.fandom.com/wiki/Sorcerer_18/_red_dragon_disciple_10/_pale_master_12

Up until level 5 (5 into sorc) including taking dual wield, which might lock me out of some more effective builds... But I'd imagine I can either realign my stats through DM or debug, or just outright make a new character for our current run and give myself the experience needed to catch up if I've made a serious mistake here.

In any case, as expressed already, I'd prefer a build that makes good use of mage spells (even if it's not the most optimal build as dragon disciple is just flavor for me honestly) but if there are some seriously powerful melee builds, don't be afraid to suggest them.

I'd prefer not having to reset, but I can work with that.

Edit: A few opinions on the pale master build linked above wouldn't hurt either.

[id795078477]

Originally posted by jonnin:

bard and pally are incompatible, so you have to go sorcerer.
that said the figher brings all the feats in. If you go with paladin, you get a few minor spells and abilities, and your immunity to fear/disease/whatever it has in return. Its fine. Any fighter subclass is fine here, barbarian (rage, hit points) or ranger (dual wield, spells) all work. Monks with 30 str are pretty silly as well :)

NWN has some twisted stuff because there is no party, just 1 character. So you have an unusually high drop rate of healing potions and kits, and some adjustments to various things that make it easier to code or better for that design. Any normal D&D game has a group of 6 usually (why almost always 6 is a mystery in and of itself) and running 6 tweaked chars is a lot more raw power than running 1 and a half (you get a sidekick, but they are weaker than you and you cant usually control their stats).

Uff.. that's very far from what many builds actually do. At the very least I have to correct you on all the "paladin isn't that good" theme. It really depends. In low magic worlds the ability to make your weapon +5 and holy avenger plus also get +3AB (prayer, aid, bless) is really A LOT. Like = a heck of A LOT, LOT, LOT. And I don't even count the ability buffs like CHA/STR and the fact that CHA gives saving throws (say 20 CHA is +5 to all saves which is A LOT).

Sure, in high magic if everyone is sporting +6 and better stuff it becomes less powerful (albeit even there the AB bonus is still very good), but then we're coming to main feature of paladins = Divine Might and Divine Shield. That can be some solid AC and damage boosters. Divine Might = less so in high magic, especially if elemental weapons are common, but in low magic it's a game changer. Let's also not forget that a decent paladin will have a good Taunt check making enemies roll -5 AC which works regardless of high/low magic and is equally impactful.

Finally, about "incompatibility" with bard - it again depends. If you're not meta-gaming or you just want to take low paladin levels (for Divine Might and Shield) - you can just shift your alignment to chaotic and then start taking bard levels. Even in base game it's doable - although you likely can't pull this stunt twice should you decide to return to leveling the paladin. And if we're talking PWs? Many of them just have a feature of shifting alignment (some for free, some not). So going bard becomes a real possibility.

[Dark Nagger]

3 Fighter 7 Weapon Master 30 Cleric

[jonnin]

Sure, paladin does shine in low magic. I tend to view the game from the campaigns perspective, not the PW. However this is about RDD setups, and flipping your alignment (possibly twice) to get one level of bard rather than be a LG sorc seems excessive. Nothing wrong with shield, mage armor, identify, or other utility from a sorc level 1, and it unlocks scrolls and wands and such too. If you wanted to split pally/bard/RDD it would make more sense, if flipping your alignment is available, though it really is immersion breaking to do that without an NPC hack, picking very un-paladin choices repeatedly. I don't hate paladins, and you make excellent points. I personally like more spell power, and find a fighting cleric (even stopping at spell level 5-6 due to 15/16 wis) suits me better for the holy warrior concept, but its just my preference. I feel the same way about other magic splash classes, like ranger, time you get cure light wounds you are taking 50 damage per hit.

[Shiroi Ren]

Maybe one can be an evil bard? And get reqs for blackguard?

[jonnin]

Originally posted by Shiroi Ren:

Maybe one can be an evil bard? And get reqs for blackguard?

That is no problem at all.

[Evil Tendencies]

Hey everyone! Long time no see. As before, if you decide to respond, don't worry about the length of your comment, I'll be happy to read it.

I didn't see the point of posting another thread so I decided to necro my old one. I also hope my new question here might end up making this thread even more helpful to anyone who is snooping about google with the right use of words about the NWN series. Lets get to it.

In essence, my new question revolves around Neverwinter nights 2, which I know that would be better posted in the gog forums, but I didn't see the harm of asking over here until get GOG reinstalled and all that. It'll be a while before I get to NWN2 as me and my group are currently planning a run through SCS baldur's gate EE.

But given the amount of issues I see people having with this game, it looks like I better get on top of things asap rather than wait until we're at the tail end of BG to try and set it up in a hurry.

-------
1. Getting Neverwinter nights 2 to work in multiplayer without Jank
The number one issue I see pop up is NWN2 being notoriously difficult to get working on modern hardware in MP without fiddling with ports and otherwise. So after a bit of looking around I found this guide here...

https://www.gog.com/forum/neverwinter_nights_series/nwn2_working_multiplayer_guide

I don't really have much to ask in terms of specifics, as I've yet to do any testing what with being caught up with BG. So this is more me asking for opinions about this link and MP in general if anyone would care to comment. The last comment on the linked thread was from 2024 saying it still works so that is some good news. I'll be playing with two other people (does NWN 2 even support 3 people)? If not is there any mod to change that?

If there are better alternatives to get MP working feel free to post those to as I would appreciate it. I'd also appreciate any additional info about your experience with NWN 2 MP if you have any, whatever I can or should be doing to avoid connection or in-game issues that you think I may otherwise miss.

2. I'm Making Another Red Dragon Disciple

Yup. Just like my run through the original here, I want to make a RDD in NWN2 as well. My previous conversation I had here made me realize that RDD shines as melee, so that's what I'm doing. I should note that I have beaten NWN2 before and while I do believe it has many similarities to the original, I still recall it being an entirely different kind of experience.

From what I understand there are a maximum of 30 levels in the game with DLC included (all of which I believe support mp)? So here are some of my questions.

1. What are some level distributions that would work for a RDD?
One into bard, 10 into RDD and the rest into fighter or barbarian? Stuff like that.

2. What would be some good feats?
I'll figure this stuff and the above out very quickly, but having a reference from people more experienced with the game never hurts.

3. Are there any MP compatible mods I should get to spice things up?
One I downloaded in NWN was simple and made the RDD actually look like a dragon person (it's no issue having my teammates download all the same files).

4. I recall NWN2 not allowing MP teammates the ability to make their own characters? Is that true? And if so, which NPCS do you think would compliment my RDD the most while being fun to play?

Thanks in advance if anyone replies.

[pckirk]

Here is the last one I played. It worked very well.

NWN 1 - Draconic Archer (Bard/RDD/Arcane Archer)
Draconic Archer
Bard(7), Red Dragon Disciple(10), Arcane Archer(23), Elf

A more stand-up orientated archer with access to Devastating Critical. The high strength score also helps it immensely with mighty bows (more damage). At a pinch it could even melee to a moderate degree.

Attributes
STR 15 (25)
DEX 18 (32)
CON 10 (12)
WIS 8
INT 12 (14)
CHA 12 (14)

Statistics
Hitpoints 350
Skillpoints 210 (4.8 maxed skills)
Saves (Fort/Will/Reflex) 24/21/34
Saving Throw Bonuses Spells: +4, Mind Effects: +2
BAB 27 (4 base attacks per round)
AB (naked/melee/ranged) 34 (melee), 53 (ranged)
Sneak Attack 0-0 (0d6)
AC (naked/armoured) 33/36
Spell Casting Bard(3)
Alignment Changes 0

Skills
Discipline 43(50), Lore 8(17), Perform 13(15), Persuade 43(45), Spellcraft 20(22), Tumble 40(51), UMD 43(45)

Level Plan
Elf: (Hardiness vs. Enchantments, Keen Sense, Low-light Vision, Skill Affinity: Listen, Skill Affinity: Search, Skill Affinity: Spot, Sleeplessness)

Level Class Attribute Attribute Result Feats Skills
01 Bard(1) Point Blank Shot, Discipline(4), Lore(4), Perform(4), Tumble(4), UMD(4),
02 Bard(2) Discipline(1), Lore(1), Perform(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1),
03 Bard(3) Called Shot, Discipline(1), Lore(1), Perform(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1),
04 Bard(4) DEX+1 (DEX=19) Discipline(1), Lore(1), Perform(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1),
05 Bard(5) Discipline(1), Lore(1), Perform(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1),
06 Red Dragon Disciple(1) Rapid Shot, Discipline(1), Persuade(2),
07 Red Dragon Disciple(2) (STR=17) Discipline(1), Persuade(2),
08 Red Dragon Disciple(3) DEX+1 (DEX=20) Discipline(1), Persuade(2),

09 Red Dragon Disciple(4) (STR=19) Weapon Focus: Longbow, Discipline(1), Persuade(2),
10 Arcane Archer(1) Save(5),
11 Arcane Archer(2) Save(10),
12 Arcane Archer(3) DEX+1 (DEX=21) Improved Critical: Longbow, Save(15),
13 Arcane Archer(4) Save(20),
14 Arcane Archer(5) Save(25),
15 Arcane Archer(6) Power Attack, Save(30),
16 Arcane Archer(7) DEX+1 (DEX=22) Save(35),
17 Arcane Archer(8) Save(40),
18 Arcane Archer(9) Cleave, Save(45),
19 Arcane Archer(10) Save(50),
20 Bard(6) DEX+1 (DEX=23) Discipline(11), Perform(4), Persuade(15), Spellcraft(3), Tumble(11), UMD(11),
21 Red Dragon Disciple(5) Epic Weapon Focus: Longbow, Discipline(1), Persuade(1), Spellcraft(1),
22 Red Dragon Disciple(6) Discipline(1), Persuade(1), Spellcraft(1),
23 Red Dragon Disciple(7) (CON=12) Discipline(1), Persuade(1), Spellcraft(1),
24 Red Dragon Disciple(8) DEX+1 (STR=20) (DEX=24) Great Strength I, Discipline(1), Persuade(1), Spellcraft(1),
25 Red Dragon Disciple(9) (INT=14) Discipline(1), Persuade(1), Spellcraft(1),
26 Red Dragon Disciple(10) (STR=24) (CHA=14) {Darkvision}, Discipline(1), Persuade(1), Spellcraft(2),
27 Arcane Archer(11) Great Cleave, Save(6),
28 Arcane Archer(12) STR+1 (STR=25) Save(12),
29 Arcane Archer(13) Save(18),
30 Arcane Archer(14) Devastating Critical: Longbow, Overwhelming Critical: Longbow, Save(24),
31 Arcane Archer(15) Save(30),
32 Arcane Archer(16) DEX+1 (DEX=25) Save(36),
33 Arcane Archer(17) (DEX=26) Great Dexterity I, Save(42),
34 Arcane Archer(18) (DEX=27) Great Dexterity II, Save(48),
35 Arcane Archer(19) Save(54),
36 Arcane Archer(20) DEX+1 (DEX=29) Great Dexterity III, Save(60),
37 Arcane Archer(21) Save(66),
38 Arcane Archer(22) (DEX=30) Great Dexterity IV, Save(72),
39 Arcane Archer(23) (DEX=31) Great Dexterity V, Save(78),
40 Bard(7) DEX+1 (DEX=32) Discipline(14), Perform(1), Persuade(14), Spellcraft(10), Tumble(21), UMD(24),

Build by jimbobslimbob

[Evil Tendencies]

Originally posted by pckirk:

Snip

I appreciate this and might even play it one day, but I put a new question on page 2. Forgive me, it should of crossed my mind to make that more obvious in the original post.

I just crossed out my original text and gave a heads up in the title.

[wendigo211]

Originally posted by Evil Tendencies:

2. I'm Making Another Red Dragon Disciple

NWN2 DB[nwn2db.com] will help with your character building needs.
The Wyrmblood Defender[nwn2db.com] is probably the standard for melee RDDs.

While NWN2's engine does allow for the RDD to have spellcasting progression (it should be the same as Pathfinder; you gain a caster level, every level other than 1, 5 and 9), it was not implemented in the game (for balance reasons). Although it is easily moddable. I don't know if you are playing with mods, If you are that might be one to look for.

[Evil Tendencies]

Originally posted by wendigo211:

Originally posted by Evil Tendencies:

2. I'm Making Another Red Dragon Disciple

NWN2 DB[nwn2db.com] will help with your character building needs.
The Wyrmblood Defender[nwn2db.com] is probably the standard for melee RDDs.

While NWN2's engine does allow for the RDD to have spellcasting progression (it should be the same as Pathfinder; you gain a caster level, every level other than 1, 5 and 9), it was not implemented in the game (for balance reasons). Although it is easily moddable. I don't know if you are playing with mods, If you are that might be one to look for.

Appreciate that website, I'll be using it from now on as a good frame of reference even if I decide to make my own builds.

As to your question, I'm planning a *mostly* vanilla playthrough. I do want three specific mods.

1. I'd like a mod that makes the dragon disciple actually look like a half dragon (at the very least a dragon head). Can't seem to find one like I did for the original NWN.

2. I'd like to find up to date information about how the pre-sell and collectors edition items work. Some people say they're in the gog version, others say you need to cheat to get specific perks for them to show up, others still say they're not available anymore. Resolved.

3. This one is the least important since I believe it'll be a pain in the ass. But a mod to allow my friends to make their own character in the original campaigns would be nice. Resolved.

--------
Past all that, recommend any mods you want, the fact I came back to this thread after two years goes to show the information won't go to waste.

I've been having the same problem with nearinfinity on BGEE as far as cosmetics go. Been trying to import the half-dragons into BGEE2 with its BAM file. But That's a different unrelated issue.