UMD and Holy Avengers

[FireGryph]

Looking just for some clarification. The wiki page says that a UMD score of 25 or higher allows full usage of the standard Holy Avenger item. However, Im not quite sure what this exactly means, or entails, because the value of the item can change, correct? Lets say its a longsword with the Holy Avenger property,. but also has bonus 1d8 fire damage, and +3 attack bonus. THat would raise the value of the longsword over and above a sword with only the Holy Avenger trait, correct? At which point, would I need a higher UMD stat in order to make use of the holy avenger effect on the sword?
And what part of 'Holy Avenger' are you emulating to be able to use the property? Its a class restriction, right? Going by the table on the wiki, class emulation of 25 DC would be a max item value of 600,000. So if the value of the sword was 750,000 for example, that would bump it up so I would need UMD of 30 to make use of the holy avenger property? Is there a way to see the base 'value' of an item?

[Shiroi Ren]

Messaggio originale di FireGryph:

Now you really lost me here.

I wanted to say that there is no alignment check for Paladin.

Messaggio originale di Valden21:

How can paladins be non-lawful good? That's not in the ruleset that Neverwinter NIghts uses. The alignment variants were part of 3.5 Ed., and even then, only if you were using the Player's Handbook II. Neverwinter Nights uses the 3.0 Ed. rules, and in that ruleset, paladins HAVE to be Lawful Good.

Ask Aribeth. Start as Paladin and massacre City Core.

[FireGryph]

Messaggio originale di Valden21:

Messaggio originale di Shiroi Ren:

Nope... Even if you're non-lawful good paladin... You can still use holy avenger at full. So it is not alignment check.

How can paladins be non-lawful good? That's not in the ruleset that Neverwinter NIghts uses. The alignment variants were part of 3.5 Ed., and even then, only if you were using the Player's Handbook II. Neverwinter Nights uses the 3.0 Ed. rules, and in that ruleset, paladins HAVE to be Lawful Good.

Well, technically to be a paladin you must be lawful good, however your alignment can change. If it does, you generally lose the connection to your deity, and thus lose your paladin powers. In game terms, you must be lawful good on character creation to select paladin as your class, but if your alignment changes from that through the course of your game, your paladin feats, powers and abilities are all disabled. Generally speaking, blackguards are sometimes considered evil paladins.

What this means in terms of the holy avenger, however, I dont know. In game, if the holy avenger only checks class, then you can be a fallen paladin that can still use the HA.

EDIT: on further digging, losing lawful good alignment doesnt actually cause you to lose your powers in NWN. You only lose the ability to gain further levels of paladin. I would say that NWN is wrong in this aspect, though that couldve been a conscious choice by the devs for the sake of players that may accidentally change alignment and lose powers, thus rendering their character almost useless. Or it may be a technical decision, as disabling all a class's powers and traits may have been beyond the scope of the engine back then. Either way, you CAN be a non-lawful good paladin, but you can only choose paladin levels if you are lawful good.

[Shiroi Ren]

I liked to play Sorc/Pal/BG for cheap save throws.

[Valden21]

Messaggio originale di FireGryph:

Messaggio originale di Valden21:

How can paladins be non-lawful good? That's not in the ruleset that Neverwinter NIghts uses. The alignment variants were part of 3.5 Ed., and even then, only if you were using the Player's Handbook II. Neverwinter Nights uses the 3.0 Ed. rules, and in that ruleset, paladins HAVE to be Lawful Good.

Well, technically to be a paladin you must be lawful good, however your alignment can change. If it does, you generally lose the connection to your deity, and thus lose your paladin powers. In game terms, you must be lawful good on character creation to select paladin as your class, but if your alignment changes from that through the course of your game, your paladin feats, powers and abilities are all disabled. Generally speaking, blackguards are sometimes considered evil paladins.

What this means in terms of the holy avenger, however, I dont know. In game, if the holy avenger only checks class, then you can be a fallen paladin that can still use the HA.

EDIT: on further digging, losing lawful good alignment doesnt actually cause you to lose your powers in NWN. You only lose the ability to gain further levels of paladin. I would say that NWN is wrong in this aspect, though that couldve been a conscious choice by the devs for the sake of players that may accidentally change alignment and lose powers, thus rendering their character almost useless. Or it may be a technical decision, as disabling all a class's powers and traits may have been beyond the scope of the engine back then. Either way, you CAN be a non-lawful good paladin, but you can only choose paladin levels if you are lawful good.

That makes sense. Considering how often I play paladins in the PnP version, I should've suspected that. I knew about what happens to paladins if they lose their alignment in the PnP version, but I've never tried seeing what happens in Neverwinter Nights.