Does Keen+Improved Crit.

[Lord-Knight Fandragon]

Do they stack? Im lookin up info on critical hits on the wiki and I see Keen. an 18-20 range weapon becomes 15-20? Sooooo, if I drop improved critical+keen on a bastard sword, how crazy does the crit range become? 13-20?

[Tesseract]

Yes, they do. As a weapon master you can get down to (IIRC) 10-20 with the right weapon.

Bear in mind that only a natural 20 is an automatic hit, anything less than that can still miss even if it's in the crit threat range. And of course you have to confirm the crit. But it's still pretty hilarious and awesome.

A keen bastard sword with improved critical would have a threat range of 15-20, because it has a normal crit range of 19-20, and keen + improved critical triples that.

[Dreamer]

Yeh 18-20 base crit weps(Rapier/Scimitar/Kukri) as a WM/improved crit/keen = 10-20 Crit threat.

[Lord-Knight Fandragon]

Originally posted by Tesseract:

Yes, they do. As a weapon master you can get down to (IIRC) 10-20 with the right weapon.

Bear in mind that only a natural 20 is an automatic hit, anything less than that can still miss even if it's in the crit threat range. And of course you have to confirm the crit. But it's still pretty hilarious and awesome.

A keen bastard sword with improved critical would have a threat range of 15-20, because it has a normal crit range of 19-20, and keen + improved critical triples that.

So Critical Hits, you have to first hit your Critical range, be it 17-20, 19-20, 20, then you have to roll another number within that range?

Though if you roll the first critical hit, its still an automatic hit whether you get the Crit or not? Just that if you dont hit the crit range again, you just dont get crit bonus damage?

I never played DnD beyond this game, so, legit dont know. I remember hearing from my dad(who did play DND and Rolemaster as a kid), saying that you had to roll and if you get the crit, then you gotta roll to see if it lands.

[n00bdragon]

1. If you roll a natural 20 your attack roll is a hit.
2. If your natural roll is a hit AND within your threat range then you "threaten a crit"
3. To threaten a crit you roll the attack roll again. If the second roll is a hit then the attack becomes a critical hit. On this second roll 20s are not automatic hits and 1s are not automatic misses.

[Lord-Knight Fandragon]

Originally posted by n00bdragon:

1. If you roll a natural 20 your attack roll is a hit.
2. If your natural roll is a hit AND within your threat range then you "threaten a crit"
3. To threaten a crit you roll the attack roll again. If the second roll is a hit then the attack becomes a critical hit. On this second roll 20s are not automatic hits and 1s are not automatic misses.

OK, Crits make a more sense now. So the 2nd roll doesnt also have to be within crit range, it just has to be a hit.

[n00bdragon]

Correct

[Tesseract]

A corollary to those rules is that a higher AC not only makes it harder to hit an opponent, it also makes it harder to crit when you do hit. And if the opponent's AC is more than 20 higher than your attack bonus, a natural 20 will still hit them, but you can never get a crit on them.