Rogue/fighter/weapon master. Which to take to the highest lvl?

[Stabbath Tv]

I see a lot of builds take weapon master to the highest lvl. I don't know why. I looked at the feats, and they are basically the same as fighter, yet fighter gets epic weapon spec. Rogue epic feats I haven't looked at in a while, but I don't think I will be taking rogue to 20 with my current character. What do you recommend taking most lvls in between fighter or wm? Thanks.

[Shiroi Ren]

WM beyond level 7 is not much useful.

[wendigo211]

WM gets a +1 to hit for every 3 levels past 10 (13, 16, 19...), so unless you really want a lot of feats (in which case Fighter), it's probably the best option.

[Stabbath Tv]

Plus one to hit for wm and fighter before lvl 20 is 1 per lvl. U talking about BAB? Sorry if I misunderstood.

[Lady Crimson (RIP)]

Originally posted by avoidingspammers:

Plus one to hit for wm and fighter before lvl 20 is 1 per lvl. U talking about BAB? Sorry if I misunderstood.

Epic level is different. It's +0.5 no matter the class.

However WM gets an additional +1 to hit every 3 levels.

In contrast fighter will be getting a ton of feats.

[Shiroi Ren]

Difference between WM7 and WM30 is 6 additional AB and 23 more Ki Damage feat usage. On other hand... 23 more levels of Fighter give you additional 11 feats, which in general would make you character much more powerful.

[Stabbath Tv]

ok, all. thanks. Ki dmg doesn't seem that great to me. Only been doing a little more dmg. I have 7 daily so, not too bad. Think I'll go with more fighter and rogue lvls (after 20). My bab is just missing 1 so far due to taking rogue at level 1.

[Shiroi Ren]

I suggest to take rogue levels after you reach level 17 at least for basic 4 attacks per round. Overall, I think you should take only 2 levels of rogue or 10.

[wendigo211]

Originally posted by Shiroi Ren:

Difference between WM7 and WM30 is 6 additional AB and 23 more Ki Damage feat usage. On other hand... 23 more levels of Fighter give you additional 11 feats, which in general would make you character much more powerful.

Not 11 additional feats, since WM 30 is also getting bonus feats on the levels it gets an AB bonus. So its 11 Fighter bonus feats vs. 6 WM bonus feats for 5 extra Fighter bonus feats. Which still sounds okay, until you realize you have nothing to spend those extra feats except for Epic Toughness feats, since after taking: Epic Prowess, Armor Skin, Overwhelming Critical, Devastating Critical, Epic Weapon Focus and Epic Weapon Specialization, you don't have any other feats on the Fighter bonus feat list worth taking.

Technically, since WM 29 and 30 don't get you anything, you want to take one more Fighter level for EWS and another Rogue level as a skill dump in epic levels. But since save and HP progression is the same between Fighter and WM, better to get the bonus to hit as opposed to the Epic Toughness feats.

[Shiroi Ren]

Originally posted by wendigo211:

Which still sounds okay, until you realize you have nothing to spend those extra feats except for Epic Toughness feats, since after taking: Epic Prowess, Armor Skin, Overwhelming Critical, Devastating Critical, Epic Weapon Focus and Epic Weapon Specialization, you don't have any other feats on the Fighter bonus feat list worth taking.

Well, I took Ambidexterity, Two-weapon fighting, Improved Two-weapon fighting, Improved KO...

[wendigo211]

Originally posted by Shiroi Ren:

Originally posted by wendigo211:

Which still sounds okay, until you realize you have nothing to spend those extra feats except for Epic Toughness feats, since after taking: Epic Prowess, Armor Skin, Overwhelming Critical, Devastating Critical, Epic Weapon Focus and Epic Weapon Specialization, you don't have any other feats on the Fighter bonus feat list worth taking.

Well, I took Ambidexterity, Two-weapon fighting, Improved Two-weapon fighting, Improved KO...

In epic levels? You didn't fit those in pre-20?

[Shiroi Ren]

I think I took,
1. Dodge, WF (Rapier), Power Attack
2. Mobility
3. Expertise
4. Weapon specialization
6. Spring Attack, WW attack
9. Cleave
12. Improved Critical
15. Greater Cleave, Blind Fight
17. KO
18. Toughness
19. Improved Power Attack

[Dreamer]

Then you have built your char badly and have wasted feats.

[Shiroi Ren]

Originally posted by Dreamer:

Then you have built your char badly and have wasted feats.

To level 15 you have no choice actualy about your feats for WM7/F30-32/R1-3.

[Dreamer]

Originally posted by Shiroi Ren:

Originally posted by wendigo211:

Which still sounds okay, until you realize you have nothing to spend those extra feats except for Epic Toughness feats, since after taking: Epic Prowess, Armor Skin, Overwhelming Critical, Devastating Critical, Epic Weapon Focus and Epic Weapon Specialization, you don't have any other feats on the Fighter bonus feat list worth taking.

Well, I took Ambidexterity, Two-weapon fighting, Improved Two-weapon fighting, Improved KO...

I'm referering to this part. If you take these feats in epic levels, your build isn't optimised.

[Shiroi Ren]

Originally posted by Dreamer:

I'm referering to this part. If you take these feats in epic levels, your build isn't optimised.

Techically, you can't take them all before level 21 all even by being Human (if you want Great Cleave, WS and IC).