Thoughts on character build.

[Maggelaggen]

Just started playing NWN again after a break of...oh...I dunno...15 years? In other words I am somewhat uncertain as to the ruleset for this particular game compared to say BG and IWD where I have played extensively.

My character is an elf with Str 14 (I do regret going this high in strength, since I am using finesse weapons), Dex 18, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 10, Chr 10. I have gone for the following feats so far:

Ambi-dexterity, Two-weapon-fighting, Weapon spec. (rapier). Currently I am switching between Rapier + 1/Short Sword for melee and a short bow for range. I have put most my skill points into discipline and parry, with 2 points in Tumbling.

My thoughts so far is to go up to say level 7 or 8 in Fighter to get decent HP, Thac0 and APR, before delving into thief for a few levels to get sneak attack and stealth and then focus on mage to get stoneskin etc. Is this a viable build?

I have seen some suggested specs where bard is included. Could someone throw some light on why the bard is so good for a dual with fighter?

If I do end up going the F/T/M-route, what would be the best NPC/Henchman?

Any thoughts/ideas will be greatly appreciated!

[DrLoboto]

I can't contribute much to advanced discussions about builds, but since you said you appreciate *any* thoughts ... ;)

The one I had is that while I can understand that you regret giving your character STR 14 when your attacks are purely based on DEX now, keep in mind that STR also has other advantages. The lower your STR is, the fewer your character will be able to carry, and that can be quite annoying in NWN. So don't feel too bad about it. Well, you probably knew that already, but just in case.

Oh, and a fighter/mage build might not be the best in NWN, as armor has an increasing chance of spell failure, the heavier it gets. Sure, you could cast buff spells before a fight, then don your armor and be a melee fighter, but the mage levels will make your melee fighter less effective and more vulnerable, I'd think. I don't think Stoneskin can make up for all these disadvantages. But then again, I'm no expert on builds at all.

[Bored Robot]

If you work your way up to getting the Automatic Still Spell feat, you'll be able to cast spells even while wearing armor and make better use of your fighter feats. However, you'll need at least 17 wizard levels before you can take it, so you'll have to make do with wizard robes and armor spells for roughly half the game.

Also, with 12 INT and 10 CHA I don't think you have a very viable spellcaster. Bard would be a good second class for you to take if you want some thieving skills and also want to cast spells, since you get both abilities in one class and your fighter strengths already make up for most of the bard's shortcomings. After that you'd make a fine Arcane Archer with that high DEX or a Champion of Torm if you want to focus on melee stealth.

[wendigo211]

Originally posted by Maggelaggen:

My character is an elf with Str 14 (I do regret going this high in strength, since I am using finesse weapons), Dex 18, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 10, Chr 10. I have gone for the following feats so far:

I wouldn't regret it. While weapon finesse adds dex to AB it doesn't help with damage and you're going to need damage when you start running into enemies who have some damage reduction. A 14 strength at least lets you get Power Attack, which can help.

My thoughts so far is to go up to say level 7 or 8 in Fighter to get decent HP, Thac0 and APR, before delving into thief for a few levels to get sneak attack and stealth and then focus on mage to get stoneskin etc. Is this a viable build?

Because of your attributes you can't make it work. The highest spell level a wizard can cast in NWN is intelligence-10. That's base intelligence (items and spells don't help), so with a 12 intelligence you could only cast level 2 spells. You could use your level up ability points to get that 14 int you need for level 4 spells though.

A Fighter/Mage is a hard thing to pull off in NWN. Normally in 3rd Ed. it's done using prestige classes like the Eldritch Knight that have full BAB progression and also improve spell casting. That prestige class isn't in NWN, so you have to balance spell casting with BAB progression. It's possible in epic levels, but it's really hard to pull off with 20 levels. If I were to do it: I would start level 1 as a Fighter, then 8 levels of Wizard, 1 level of Fighter, 10 levels of Arcane Archer and then keep going as a Wizard (in Epic levels BAB progression is the same for all classes).

Ideally, you want to take the Wizard levels early, because at low levels they can buff up and fight fairly well and their BAB hasn't fallen that far behind the Fighter. Since you're going dex, you also want Flame Weapon as soon as possible to do some damage. The end result isn't great, but it's good enough for the main campaigns.

Adding Rogue to the mix will make things more complicated since they need BAB help as well, and with three base classes you're begging for an XP penalty. You could try something like Fighter 4/Assassin 8/Wizard 8 pre-epic, but it's trying to do too many things at once, and wouldn't be a good character.

I have seen some suggested specs where bard is included. Could someone throw some light on why the bard is so good for a dual with fighter?

Bards are basically F/M/Ts they have the skill list of the rogue, some arcane spell casting and medium BAB progression. They're more or less what you're trying to create.

If I do end up going the F/T/M-route, what would be the best NPC/Henchman?

The Barbarian or the Monk.

[Maggelaggen]

Thanks for all input so far! Everything from the str for carrying weight and also dmg bonuses, to more specific build info has been really helpful.

I think F/T/M is off the table for this character then! I guess I am too colored by playing BG/BG2 where intelligence isn't really that much of an issue for mages and fighter/mages since you can always use potions before learning new spells to avoid the int req.

I did some research here before starting up https://steamcommunity.com/groups/NWN-Players/discussions/1/ but thought I could device my own build with some luck, based on my experiences in BG/BG2, where the F/M and F/T/M are really good for soloing. None of the other fighter-based builds really caught my eye neither. Since my original idea is no good, I think I'll go further into a more versatile Fighter/thief-type that is mainly melee-oriented, but can also hold his own with ranged weapons.

I am somewhat surprised that dex bonus doesn't apply to both hit and damage with finesse weapons. I guess I was fooled by the fact that it does in 5th ed D&D.

Any thoughts on a good Henchman for the versatile fighter/thief-type? Right now I have the thief, but he is more or less a carbon-copy of what I am aiming for, if only with less HP and survivability. A cleric, mage or bard perhaps?

[DrLoboto]

Personally, I don't find mage henchmen very useful, due to the bad AI. You'll probably be more busy trying to keep them alive than thankful for their random help, if any. Clerics are decent enough melee fighters of their own and they might be useful for healing your ailments occasionally. Bards could provide some nice buffs, but are probably a bit vulnerable, too. (You don't really want vulnerable henchmen in a game that only gives you subpar control over them and makes them disregard your tactics and act on their own half of the time.)

Or, you could just choose which character you like best (sympathy, background story, voice etc.).

[Bored Robot]

Originally posted by Maggelaggen:

Any thoughts on a good Henchman for the versatile fighter/thief-type? Right now I have the thief, but he is more or less a carbon-copy of what I am aiming for, if only with less HP and survivability. A cleric, mage or bard perhaps?

If you're going for a fighter/thief (or any kind of rogue build) then your goal is to maximize your sneak attacks, and that means having a melee henchman who can attract a lot of attention and has the HP and AC to survive it. My first pick would be a cleric henchman. They can wear heavy armor and buff themselves while you zip around the battlefield doing the real damage. After that, I'd go with good ol' Daelen Red-Tiger.

Sneak attacks are awesome in NWN. Use them right and you can finish off powerful fighters in a single round.

[Tola]

It's far too late for this datum for this character, but I'd honestly recommend dual short swords if you want to go that route. It's a kind of iffy question on a pure rogue, sacrificing the rapier's enhanced crit range for a +1 attack, but a fighter/rogue definitely wants it so they can get double the bonus off Weapon Specialization too.

[Maggelaggen]

I am currently using rapier/short-sword and seriously considering taking weapon spec in short sword as well. I am not really convinced by the other feats (cleave + power attack seems better for 2h) and need to boost my DPS. In BG/IWD speccing OH would be a complete waste, since you only get 1 attack/round with your OH, regardless. Does it work differently in NWN?

[elvendualwielder]

"Does it work differently in NWN vs IWD"
Absolutely. NWN is based off of Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition ruleset while IWD is 2nd edition ruleset. Both are drastically different.
The way to get more offhand attacks in 3rd is to take 2 weapon fighting as a feat, improved 2WF then greater 2WF, each giving you an additional attack with your offhand to trade off another -5 to that attack, just like your main hand.
Others have put this up before, but going mage for you wouldn't be a good idea, as you'd be able to only cast 2nd level spells (Melf's Acid Arrow, Knock, Electric Loop etc), and 3rd level spells are where mages start to really shine.
My suggestion for you in this setup is to stick with a single class for the time being before you concern yourself with the messiness of multiclassing, despite how much fun it can be. For an elf with those stats, I'd recommend going Ranger, who gets bow feats and 2WF feats for free in addition to getting full Base Attack Bonus that the Fighter gets, the only downside from your listed stats is you wouldn't get the Ranger spells, but most of those are so minor it's not too terrible of a tradeoff.
Power Attack works best with a character that has an absurd bonus to hit, so taking a -5 to hit to get a +5 to damage is worth it if you already have +15/+10 to hit and go crit fishing as a fighter.
I know, very long, but thanks for reading and hope this helps! Remember to stay healthy out there!

Edit; almost forgot, but the skills. I can see discipline, as it helps vs knockdown and others, but why parry? In NWN, for every 5 ranks in Tumble you have you get +1 to your AC. I'd recommend if you do make a new character, swap those 2 skills around. Yes, getting that parry roll as a bonus to your AC is nice, but you need to activate it which means you can't attack until they miss you by 10 or more. Personally, I'd rather have the passive smaller bonus that always functions.

[RotherHans]

You need to plan for this.
https://nwn.fandom.com/wiki/Whirlwind_attack

Rest of the build then comes naturally.
Also Str 14 is good, otherwise you´d be too gimped with your encumberance.

[NekRon99]

I wouldn't bother with any caster class with those stats. Bards use charisma for casting and you don't have any. Your wiz can cast only up to level 2 spells which as someone else mentioned you'd have to raise the stat to gain higher level spells and you will need those stats in your ftr thief primaries. I think bard was mentioned for the use magical device and tumble skills which thieves also get so why bother. I think you should stick with ftr/thf and use magic items to buff up and scrolls for crowds. While you consider a henchman, decide whether your character is the flanker or the front guy. Finesse ftrs dont hit as hard without strength to back it up, and sneak attack scales with levels and you said you were only considering a couple levels of thief. Your armor choice will limit the dex bonus you get to ac so extra stat points might be better off going into strength instead. Focus on boosting your criticals with appropriate feats and use your stealth to find advantageous spots to attack. Im wondering why you are stuck with this character and cant just redo him or her?

[elvendualwielder]

Originally posted by NekRon99:

Im wondering why you are stuck with this character and cant just redo him or her?

Someone went to forums or searched for "best nwn build" without knowing why to take these things. OP, take what sounds fun and enjoyable, we can make all sorts of suggestions but ultimately take whatever makes you go, "this might be cool".