Best PvE class

[maverick]

Clerics looks OP, imho. Very tanky (heavy armor, shield and buff spells), can do some magical and melee damage. You can also summon different creatures (and buff them too) and turn undead. Clerics like Chuck Norris can do eveything!
Druids at the second place.
What do you think about it?

[EvilDonut]

Yep. Especially in the offical campaigns, which are full of undeads.
My list would be:
1) Cleric
2) Druid
3) Wizard
4) Paladin

[Iso Koala]

Dex based fighter/bard. Can cast haste and flaming weapons on himself, sing to keep himself happy and enemies weak. Hits hard even with low str due to flaming weapon spell, and dodges every attack with ridiculous AC, can use any equipment and item thanks to use magic weapon.

[DevilripperTJ]

i think a real powerhouse is a druid/monk/ maybe if u like it even shifter :D for me its my favourite class combo so far why summon creatures if u can be one? :D

[Caddo]

I like dual weild fighter. At level 12 I'm at 26 AC, 156HP, I attack 5 times per round (not counting a Haste potion, in which I stockpile).

Current weapon is 1d8+7, 1d6, +2 Slashing
Offhand is 1d8+4, 1d4, +1 Slashing

I tear stuff up so fast in the normal campaign that its silly at times. My only weakness? Not much as I keep a Ghostly Visage on me which stacking with my current AC is just crazy. (Rod of the Ghost)

Oh yeah, take Knockdown as well. You'll laugh at how easy casters become when you knock them to the floor for 2 rounds.

[Voodoo]

fighter/wm/cot
fighter/bard/rdd
fighter/wm/dd

[antirelic]

Wiz with 1 level in fighter is probably the most I'm balanced. Wail of banshee is op

[Trehek]

There are many class combinations which are extremely powerful. Here are a few:

1) Paladin / Weapon Master / Champion of Torm
* Crit build able to pull off the highest damage I've ever got in a single hit. Scythe smite crit vs. evil target at max level can reach 2000+ damage.
* Much less effective against non-evil targets.
* Only becomes truly powerful at epic levels.
* Requires a lot of feats. Human recommended.

2) Fighter / Weapon Master or Cleric / Weapon Master
* Highest melee dps with highest potential attack bonus.
* Cleric buffed up for attack bonus and damage can outperform the fighter at high levels, but is more tedious due to buffs. Cleric also takes longer to reach the power spike from WM levels due to slower feat progression.
* Get a big 2-h weapon. Greatsword for steady dps, scythe for big numbers (up to 500 damage per crit at max level). Get the WM prerequisite feats, power attack, cleave (great cleave is unnecessary) and everything that improves attack bonus and damage with your chosen weapon. Scythe requires proficiency feat. Feats require str 13 / dex 13 / int 13.
* Strong from level 1 if you pick Power attack and Cleave first (cleric can't afford to, needs to take WM feats ASAP).
* Requires a lot of feats. Human recommended.

3) Druid / Monk / Shifter
* A wild shape build focused on the forms that use unarmed attacks, combining the shapeshifting with a monk's unarmed benefits. Bears, tigers, eventually the dragon. Not as damaging as the Ftr/WM, but still competitive, stylish and really fun!
* Get enough druid to unlock shifter. Get 10 levels of shifter for Greater Wild Shape IV (also works as the dragon form's prerequisite), then get monk with the rest. Consider taking one monk level at lv 1 to unlock the class bonuses and to take benefit from the 4x skill points.

4) Sorcerer
* The blaster build. Focus on damage dealing spells. Picking the right spells is key.
* Fireball, chain lightning, horrid wilting, meteor swarm, etc. for area damage
* Magic Missile, Lesser/ Greater Missile Storm for single target and for encounters with a few enemies.
* Cloudkill, Acid Fog and Incendiary Cloud are also a fun option for multiple targets. The various cloud types can stack with each other.
* Empower / Maximize Metamagics for filling most spell levels's slots with the aforementioned spells and for dealing a ton of damage. Missile storms are seriously OP.
* Greater Ruin and Hellball epic spells.

5) Wizard
* The save or die build. Use the wizard specialization options, a maxed casting stat and spell focus feats to maximize your save DC and make things go away without any hit point hassle.
* Can be built with necromancy (Circle of Death, Finger of Death and Power Word: Kill) or with Illusion (Phantasmal Killer and Weird). Pick other spells to serve as alternate killing methods for targets who are immune to your chosen school. (Death immunity or Mind Effect immunity)

6) Fighter / Wizard or Fighter / Sorcerer or Fighter / Sorcerer / Red Dragon Disciple
* The so-called gish build (after githyanki fighter/wizards). The arcane melee buff master.
* Use fighter to gain weapon and armor proficiencies, enough base attack for extra swings, hit points and extra feats.
* Focus your spellcasting mainly on buffing your melee combat. Use the Still Spell feat to prepare and cast your spells in full plate armor. During the first levels you may instead want to take off your armor when buffing to save your spell slots. At epic levels you can get Automatic Still Spell.
* Can be tedious with all the buffing, but very strong and a unique playstyle. The buffing becomes more manageable with Haste.
* Because your base attack bonus won't get as high as a pure fighter, and because you don't need a very high caster level since you're mostly buffing, Red Dragon Disciple can be a fun option to improve both your defense (fire, sleep and paralysis immunity, extra con, bigger hit dice and a stacking AC bonus) and offense (+8 str). Pay attention the order you take your levels, to maximize your base attack bonus at level 20. Ftr 8 / Sorc 4 / RDD 8 is the optimal distribution which gives +16 BAB and four swings per round, then finish off RDD to lv 10 and take sorcerer with the remaining epic levels. However, that delays most of your buffs to high levels, so if you're playing the official campaigns it might be more fun to take just one or two levels of fighter and focusing more on sorcerer.

6) Cleric / Monk
* The ultimate AC tank. Use cleric buffs to beef up your monk fighting. Wisdom benefits for both classes.
* Fast. Decent damage and lots of attacks but not the best possible attack bonus. Various cleric spellcasting options for versatility.
* Reached my highest ever AC of 96 with this combination on a persistent server. For comparison, my second highest AC was 72 (with crit immunity, on a bard / pale master / RDD, also a very strong combination).

[Valen]

Having played all the Dungeon and Dragons PC games from about day one of their release - There is not Best Character. Sometimes creating a specific type of character for a module helps but is far from necessary. You can be sucessful with any combination as long as you build your character correctly. Many years ago I played this game with just a Fighter/Thief crit/damage build and he had no problems. You could finish this game with just a single class.

As I said - know the system and how the numbers work - you can make any class great!

[jimbobslimbob]

Originally posted by Valen:

Having played all the Dungeon and Dragons PC games from about day one of their release - There is not Best Character. Sometimes creating a specific type of character for a module helps but is far from necessary. You can be sucessful with any combination as long as you build your character correctly. Many years ago I played this game with just a Fighter/Thief crit/damage build and he had no problems. You could finish this game with just a single class.

As I said - know the system and how the numbers work - you can make any class great!

This. Absolutely this.

This thread is a never-ending discussion that does not have a definitive answer - it boils down to how the player plays their game and what they want out of it.

[Internet Cafe]

They are not match for powerful fighter and wizard spells that can't be defended.

[Iso Koala]

Originally posted by Valen:

Having played all the Dungeon and Dragons PC games from about day one of their release - There is not Best Character. Sometimes creating a specific type of character for a module helps but is far from necessary. You can be sucessful with any combination as long as you build your character correctly. Many years ago I played this game with just a Fighter/Thief crit/damage build and he had no problems. You could finish this game with just a single class.

Yes, when it comes to the single player. The online persistent worlds offer challenges far beyond that though, and honestly a strong AC build can take down 10 avarage fighters of same level. Fighter/thief though is a pretty decent basic build though, nothing wrong with that. But basic barbarian for example is just cannon fodder in harder persistent world end game content.

Most of the damage based wizzard spells also become pretty useless when facing dragons of 10+ levels higher than you. End game wizzards are mostly buffers. Maximized Isaac's greater missile storm is the strongest Wizzard dmg spell, as it doesnt allow saving throws, and is not fire etc balanced, thus can make great deal of dmg to even resistant enemies.

[jimbobslimbob]

Originally posted by Iso Koala:

Originally posted by Valen:

Having played all the Dungeon and Dragons PC games from about day one of their release - There is not Best Character. Sometimes creating a specific type of character for a module helps but is far from necessary. You can be sucessful with any combination as long as you build your character correctly. Many years ago I played this game with just a Fighter/Thief crit/damage build and he had no problems. You could finish this game with just a single class.

Yes, when it comes to the single player. The online persistent worlds offer challenges far beyond that though, and honestly a strong AC build can take down 10 avarage fighters of same level. Fighter/thief though is a pretty decent basic build though, nothing wrong with that. But basic barbarian for example is just cannon fodder in harder persistent world end game content.

Most of the damage based wizzard spells also become pretty useless when facing dragons of 10+ levels higher than you. End game wizzards are mostly buffers. Maximized Isaac's greater missile storm is the strongest Wizzard dmg spell, as it doesnt allow saving throws, and is not fire etc balanced, thus can make great deal of dmg to even resistant enemies.

I don't think we are debating whether all builds were created equally here - as everyone is aware they clearly are not. What is in question is the original poster's "Best PvE class" question - to which there simply isn't one. There are many very good builds that can perform well in PvE and it's simply a question of what the player wants out of the build/character. E.g. Do they want a sneaky single target damage dealer, an AoE Evocation Sorceror, a high-critical cookie cutter etc.?

[Soft Lockpick]

Originally posted by jimbobslimbob:

Originally posted by Iso Koala:

Yes, when it comes to the single player. The online persistent worlds offer challenges far beyond that though, and honestly a strong AC build can take down 10 avarage fighters of same level. Fighter/thief though is a pretty decent basic build though, nothing wrong with that. But basic barbarian for example is just cannon fodder in harder persistent world end game content.

Most of the damage based wizzard spells also become pretty useless when facing dragons of 10+ levels higher than you. End game wizzards are mostly buffers. Maximized Isaac's greater missile storm is the strongest Wizzard dmg spell, as it doesnt allow saving throws, and is not fire etc balanced, thus can make great deal of dmg to even resistant enemies.

I don't think we are debating whether all builds were created equally here - as everyone is aware they clearly are not. What is in question is the original poster's "Best PvE class" question - to which there simply isn't one. There are many very good builds that can perform well in PvE and it's simply a question of what the player wants out of the build/character. E.g. Do they want a sneaky single target damage dealer, an AoE Evocation Sorceror, a high-critical cookie cutter etc.?

That's just not true though. Some builds can cover more bases than others and mitigate their own weaknesses. Some can't.

It doesn't really matter that there's a best for PvE... which is what you seem to be trying to get at. Because none of the PvE challenges really set a bar so high that you can't contribute with a suboptimal build. But there are best builds and bad builds for PvE.

People who post this kind of question just want to hear what the "tier list" breakdown is and see if they're missing out on some powerful combos. Why go all holier than thou on them?

[jimbobslimbob]

Originally posted by Chairman Kaga:

That's just not true though. Some builds can cover more bases than others and mitigate their own weaknesses. Some can't.

Did you read my post? I specifically said "I don't think we are debating whether all builds were created equally here - as everyone is aware they clearly are not."

Originally posted by Chairman Kaga:

It doesn't really matter that there's a best for PvE... which is what you seem to be trying to get at. Because none of the PvE challenges really set a bar so high that you can't contribute with a suboptimal build. But there are best builds and bad builds for PvE.

Again, I specifically said exactly that in my post: "What is in question is the original poster's "Best PvE class" question - to which there simply isn't one."

Originally posted by Chairman Kaga:

People who post this kind of question just want to hear what the "tier list" breakdown is and see if they're missing out on some powerful combos. Why go all holier than thou on them?

I wasn't, at all, I was trying to get the point across that people get too obsessed with things like the "best build" when in reality, there are many - as you said with your comment on a "tier list".

[Voodoo]

Originally posted by Valen:

Having played all the Dungeon and Dragons PC games from about day one of their release - There is not Best Character. Sometimes creating a specific type of character for a module helps but is far from necessary. You can be sucessful with any combination as long as you build your character correctly. Many years ago I played this game with just a Fighter/Thief crit/damage build and he had no problems. You could finish this game with just a single class.

As I said - know the system and how the numbers work - you can make any class great!

That would be true if we had all feats, but look at paladin, without epic divine might its just inferior fighter against any nonevil enemies.
Dual wield inherently pulls less dps than 2 handers since you dont have greater and perfect two weapon fighting.

Finally once devastating critical kicks in, weapon master with rapiers or scimitars just obsoletes every other melee character.