Weapon Specialization for Arcane Archer question.

[Liebsmaschine]

I'm going to multiclass arcane archer / sorcerer but really want weapon specialization for the bow which requires fighter levels. Anyone know the most optimal path to get weapon specialization asap with as few fighter levels as possible?

I've looked into this but the manual doesn't make 100% clear about how many fighter levels are needed for weapon specialization, I know in Icewind Dale 2 you need about 4, can it be got for less in NWN?.

[red255]

you need I think 4 and 6 for epic weapon specialization.

definately need 4 for weapon spec, and if you want epic weapon spec later.

as for ideal path. I was thinking Bard 8, RDD 10, Arcane archer 22, because devastating critical longbow?

I mean spending 4 levels on fighter for your ranged weapon damage +2 doesn't really make sense when arcane archer gets +1 damage every 2 levels.

but getting +8 strength to allow for 25 STR to devestating critical and use Mighty bows. yeah that makes sense.

[Liebsmaschine]

I definitely don't want epic specialization, way too much of a fighter investment, but I was thinking if I could get away with just one or two fighter levels for the standard specialization it might be worth it. Maybe just taking a fighter level once I get to a feat tier and have the prerequisite weapon focus feat and +4 attack. That's all the manual says is needed for specialization, but if as you say it requires 4 levels then it might need a rethink. I'd still like to know the most optimal path though.

Edit - 4 levels for +2 damage is the same as +1 damage for 2 levels, although yes you're using up a feat for the former. My thinking was that if I could somehow squeeze in specialization before being able to take Arcane Archer I'd get the +2 damage on top of the AA damage without losing out on potential AA levels.

Edit 2 - I just checked a Wiki which backs up what you say, so 4 levels it is. I might still go for it though, it's the same damage / level ratio and will cost a feat but I like the idea of throwing a few fighter levels in early game, just to make my flimsy caster / ranged fighter a bit more robust. I play on very difficult and the early game can sometimes be the toughest part.

[Shia Luck]

If you are a sorcerer increasing charisma you could take 4 lvls of Paladin for Divine Might and Divine Shield to add your charisma bonus to damage (Might) and AC (shield). Pal 3 or Cleric 1 and the feat power attack (needs STR 13) are prerequisites. P4/AA10/S26 works very nicely.

Have fun :)

[Liebsmaschine]

Hmm OK, it would mean going lawful though which isn't what I had in mind for this guy. Divine Might sounds like it could be immense though with the charisma bonus, is it a permanent feat or just a limited use thing? Once I'm done with the Arcane Archer I'm thinking of doing something with a Pale Master so maybe I could have some weird fallen paladin, necromancer type character if I can find a way to go from lawful good to (ideally) chaotic neutral (ikr) but I'd settle for true neutral.

[red255]

Divine might is 3+CHA modifier uses per day.

it lasts CHA modifier rounds. I find it rather useful with something that hits alot. and also combine with the divine favor of +1 attack and damage per caster level of the paladin or cleric. for 10 rounds.

you only get 3 classes.

so if you have 1 class of arcane, 1 class of arcane archer 1 class of paladin (or cleric) no room for palemaster.

[Liebsmaschine]

I know, the Pale Master would be a different character once I'm done with the Arcane Archer. So it sounds like with a high charisma you could keep Divine Might going almost constantly between rests. I'm interested if it wasn't for that alignment clash with Paladin and Pale Master.

[wendigo211]

Are you trying to make a Gish, or an Archer. There are kind of two ways players use AAs in NWN:

1. They take the bare minimum number of caster levels and take a lot of AA for an archer with a really high AB and damage bonus.
   
2. They'll do something like Fighter 2/Wizard 8/AA 10 pre-epic and then Wizard 18/Fighter 2 in epic levels to create a fighter/mage (Gish) character. With a Sorc you would probably want to go Paladin 4/Sorc 6/AA 10 pre-epic and then Sorc past 20.

If you're just playing through the OCs (or SoU+HotU), then I would probably go for the former; you just don't hit a high enough level to make the Gish version pay off.

[Liebsmaschine]

Well I've just retired a LV 40 sorcerer / RDD (OC and a bunch of modules) and used the crossbow a lot, especially for certain encounters. So I want Arcane Archer instead of RDD this time to put more ooomph in my bow, but I want to keep roughly the same sorcerer build. Basically a ranged archer / caster, no melee at all, is how I play. Henchmen and summons do the melee, I stand back where possible. I was thinking fighter / sorcerer levels early on, until weapon specialization, then just keep it sorcerer / arcane archer after that. Paladin I'd do, but don't wanna be lawful good. I'm thinking a crazy, chaotic good elf for this one. It's for Sou + HotU plus expansion modules from Neverwinter Vault. I plan to go to 40 if I can.

[Shia Luck]

Have you played Sands of Fate from the vault? That's post HotU to lvl40. That's the perfect module series for a sorc with Divine Might.

I don't imagine engineering a fall from grace after lvl6 in SoU is that hard, but if that's not your playstyle then cleric becomes your only choice for getting Divine Might. You will still need 4 levels pre epic or lose an attack per round.

The one advantage of cleric over paladin for your character would be animal domain boosting your summons up one level higher than the spell you cast.That actually makes a huge difference to your spell choices as you level, so much so my 'pure' sorc would consider a dip into cleric.With this build tho your summons will be so weak anyway I am not sure you will really see the difference.

If fighter suddenly sounds attractive again take note of Wendigo211's level split. That is how you get Epic Weapon Specialisation in only 4 ftr lvls. The trick is to take the 4th on a feat level in epic levels. Use the standard feat for Wpn spec and the fighter bonus feat for Epic Wpn Spec.

Have fun :)

[Liebsmaschine]

Thanks for that, I'll definitely look into the module. I had my eye on one called The Pawns of Darkness, which also has a bridge module between the two expansions. I want to play a bridge as I don't like the idea of being auto levelled, need to earn that XP legit.

Yeah I could "accidentally" kill an innocent or two, to get out of being LG, but that's a bit meta for me. A way to do it without murdering would be more appropriate. No spoilers though, I know nothing about these expansions and want to keep it totally blind.

The epic specialization feat trick is nifty and optimal but would come late, I'm guessing some way into the second expansion. I can't help feeling that the net bow damage across the whole set of campaigns might be less by doing that, and by the time I get to that point my spells would far outclass the bow anyway (I use maximise spell, over 700 guaranteed damage with a haste, time stop, maximised greater missile storm *3 combo). The bow is there mainly for mopping up, spell conservation where necessary and dealing with enemies that have spell immunity.

I think I've worked out a path where I can get early weapon specialization before arcane archer would be possible, therefore netting the +2 damage without sacrificing AA damage. The extra feat required is moot I've realised because fighter gets extra feats, so I'll bag some bonus feats in the bargain.

RE the cleric, I did want to try a cleric / sorcerer combo as I like some of the divine spells but my sorcerer build is very high charisma and very low wisdom, so I'd need to work out some sort of compromise.

[Shia Luck]

Hmmm, killing is more likely to net you evil points (not spoilers, I haven't played the OCs in years, just typical gameplay in NWN.) Stealing is where it's at if you want to go chaotic.(*Stopping myself from ranting about the nonsense application of alignment in NWN*)

You are right about the epic specialisation being late in that levelling. That's actually quite a problem when using powerbuilds. Mostly the Epic builds are designed for PW's where your character continues at max level.

Pawns of Darkness I haven't played so I'd be interested in your view after trying it. I am actually at the beginning of an SoU/HotU playthrough with a couple of friends. One a writer and module writer (Check out his Resurrection Gone Wrong series for a fun and unusual take on a NWN adventure in the workshop and vault) and a friend new to NWN so Pawns might be good for us if we ever finish SoU (scheduling between American and European players is so difficult at times!)

If you are finding yourself getting into character building then this tool is invaluable for experimenting with ideas ahead of time. Libre office is free if you don't have excel.
https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/other/tool/characterbuildcalculator-cbc

Anyway, good to know you have your character-for-now sorted. We should talk more when it is time for that Palemaster. (Sorcerers don't work nearly as well as wizards.)

Have fun :)

[Liebsmaschine]

Yes if you kill an innocent you can go from 100 good to evil very quickly. Also killing innocents can sometimes soft lock your game in a few modules as it's possible to kill quest givers, not something I do anyway unless messing about. I'm not a huge thief either, I never pickpocket but I do open every chest. Chests in NWN seem to be fair game most of the time, it's like a JRPG in that sense where no-one cares if you root through their possessions, so I'm not even sure if that counts as stealing. Regardless it's moot because I'm going with fighter / sorcerer / AA and will see how that pans out. I will do the paladin build when I play Darkness over Daggerford and possibly for Wyvern Crown of Cormyr as lawful good would seem a better fit for those.

RE epic levels, for story reasons I retired my Sorcerer/RDD when he got to 40, it would have been nice to continue with him as those last few feats were barely used. It was hard to find good, appropriate modules that catered for epic levels though, especially really high ones, and I'd put about 240 hours into him so was a bit fatigued. It's a weird one, you'd like to keep playing with the character at his full potential, but the incentive to do so is diminished from no longer earning XP.

As far as character building goes I like to have a rough idea of what I want to do, but I build on the fly based on the challenges presented before me as well as my play style. Part of the fun is not quite knowing how it'll turn out but seeing it develop and more importantly succeed, especially at high difficulties. I think using a character builder would take away some of that fun, which is why I've shied away from them. Although it's definitely something that interests me, not just in NWN but all RPGs.

I will probably use a pale master for some of the other modules I intend to play. I started out using a wizard, I played through most of the Infinity Engine games as one. I prefer sorcerer these days as it allows for less meta, more versatile "on the fly" blind gameplay and isn't as high maintenance (plus I prefer a charisma boost to intelligence). Wizards work better if you know what's ahead and can learn your spells accordingly, sorcerers just use what they know, which I kind of prefer. It makes choosing your spells more critical and strategic in the long term too, plus it makes learning them an "event", which I like. That said I might go for wizard with the pale master just to mix it up and force me to play a bit differently.