Xen is way better here than in Black Mesa

[HeoMeo]

Just finished replaying through the game and Xen wasn't that bad, it was actually okay. Especially considering that the game came out in 1998, I think everything holds up quite well.

Black Mesa's Xen on the other hand ruined the experience of the game. I think the game is masterfully done through Lambda Core, but Xen completely stains it. It's not all bad, namely, some of the areas look fantastic.

In my opinion, this is what puts original Xen above remake:

• Mainly, the length! Original is much shorter, whereas remake drags on forever and feels really bloated
  
• The puzzles in remake were tedious and not enjoyable
  
• Much of the art direction in the remake I didn't like at all (Vortigaunt's living quarters, much of the factory, etc.)

Sadly, I'd imagine a ton of effort was put into this part of the remake for it to only bring the rest of the game down.

Going to Xen is such a cool idea I just wish it was executed better. What's your opinion on Xen? Which do you prefer? If any, what changes would you like to see?

[PsyWarVeteran]

Xen was always good, same with On A Rail. People commonly like to follow the words of a well known personality rather than form their own, such is was the case with the whole "Xen is bad" debacle. People following fads.

Was Xen great compared to the rest of the chapters? No.
Is it my favorite level? No.
Is Black Mesa's Xen an improvement? Hell no.

They hyped people for far too long that they felt like they needed to release this grand epic experience but instead all they had to do was give people the final chapter of HL, improved.

The puzzles were unnecessary and boring, none of the locations feels like the original and the worst part is it drags on and on. Great job, I'm sure people who doesn't like Xen will really enjoy what is basically a whole new short game that takes place in even more Xen.

It's a wasted opportunity in a game that is in itself a bigger wasted opportunity. I'd care more if the devs didn't jump the shark all those years ago.

[Pipemilker]

Originally posted by Graceful Jabberwocky:

it sucks in both

This is the true answer, and Black Mesa Xen is 7 hours longer therefore

[Cat]

I agree. Xen in Half Life wasn't the best, but it ended quickly before I started feeling bored.

Black Mesa Xen is just unnecessarily long, I can even believe the devs were just trolling people for being annoying that they kept complaining about the slow development because it's hard to believe they would actually think people are gonna enjoy this.

Boring repetitive puzzles, follow the red wire and shoot the switch to make it turn blue, look for the orange rock and place it in the generator the science team had conveniently placed there, swim through water with 2 alien sharks, don't trigger the explosive mushroom thingy, rinse and repeat.. I can't stand it, I had to use noclip at the fourth water area, and I still gave up playing it before even reaching gonarchs lair and I haven't continue playing ever since.

The level is basically like duke Nukem forever's crash course and hive chapters, but they took away the best parts of them and leave the worst. There are some good areas in BM Xen like the tent area filled with zombies was good to see they haven't forgotten about zombies while Half-Life just abandons these enemies after Apprehension. Yeah, I even suggested hev wearing zombies before Xen came out so it's good to see an enemy with new skin, because I didn't really like the exploding sound dogs.

[HeoMeo]

Originally posted by Cat:

I agree. Xen in Half Life wasn't the best, but it ended quickly before I started feeling bored.

Black Mesa Xen is just unnecessarily long, I can even believe the devs were just trolling people for being annoying that they kept complaining about the slow development because it's hard to believe they would actually think people are gonna enjoy this.

Boring repetitive puzzles, follow the red wire and shoot the switch to make it turn blue, look for the orange rock and place it in the generator the science team had conveniently placed there, swim through water with 2 alien sharks, don't trigger the explosive mushroom thingy, rinse and repeat.. I can't stand it, I had to use noclip at the fourth water area, and I still gave up playing it before even reaching gonarchs lair and I haven't continue playing ever since.

The level is basically like duke Nukem forever's crash course and hive chapters, but they took away the best parts of them and leave the worst. There are some good areas in BM Xen like the tent area filled with zombies was good to see they haven't forgotten about zombies while Half-Life just abandons these enemies after Apprehension. Yeah, I even suggested hev wearing zombies before Xen came out so it's good to see an enemy with new skin, because I didn't really like the exploding sound dogs.

Yep, it was a drag! Also, remember the silliest part where they had a ton of trip mines set up in one of the hallways... how does that even make sense? I can't believe I forgot to mention the exploding houndeyes, they were so annoying!

I do agree about the tent area, I thought that was a great idea. It adds to the environmental storytelling; showing how the scientists set up camp in this new world to explore and study.

I think the Black Mesa team shined the most when they stuck close to the source material and made small variations (which was the case up to Lambda Core). With Xen, it seemed like they wanted to do an entire creative rework and didn't have the discretion for the scope of the project. Like I mentioned before, it's sad to see all the wasted effort.

[HeoMeo]

Originally posted by Graceful Jabberwocky:

it sucks in both

That's the thing, I don't think Xen in Half-Life is terrible. It's passable to me, and I wouldn't mind going through it future playthroughs. Black Mesa's Xen on the other hand, I would never go through again.

What are your main criticisms of the original Xen? The main one I've seen mentioned is the frustration with platforming. This honestly wasn't that big of an issue for me. Overall, I love the idea of going to Xen for the finale. I do think the level design could've used more polished, but after playing through Black Mesa's Xen it really makes me appreciate the length of the original.

[Romolus104]

Oh boy, here I go defending Xen again...
PsyWarVeteran got it straight, if it wasn't for Civvie sucking at low gravity platforming (I respect the guy save for his take on what Half Life did to the industry), that would be like 90% of the hate for Xen out of the door. People being a bit over the edge during On A Rail is kind of understandable considering the restless pacing, but Xen when it came out back then was freaking transcendent. The artistic vision and execution were flawless.

I also agree with OP, I didn't love Black Mesas Xen, I felt the music was out of place, the levels were pretty but completely missed the original tone of loneliness, hostility and uncertainty. I think the Vorthcamp was an interesting addition, maybe a bit on the nose... and the final bossfight was really enjoyable, but overall it just didn't feel all that much like Half Life to me at least.

[calembredaine]

loved the colourful levels alright. gameplay-wise it was flashy more than epic stellar action, but still a enjoyable enough trip somehow. puzzles did not interest me, but i honestly liked the ramp-up intensity outside of those such as running from big freaks, killing hordes of houndeyes on weird bridges, breaking stuff with the gluon gun or going 1v1 against apparently buffed alien grunts.

that said i also have good feels for og xen but for different reasons. all that constant moon like airstrafing on rocky space island is pretty funny once in a while. then the levels of og interloper also had this "pushed against the wall, full of ambushes and counterattacks" vibe which while not subtle at all, got my amusement now.

my answer will be kinda lame : i am okay with both. they are both odd and contentious, but i got to enjoy them. meawnhile, i find these stories of popular opinions or bm not doing og justice properly are just other farces to have fun with so no wonder i am taking no real side on this.

[a grilled cheese sandwich]

uhh i dunno, i think black mesa's xen is a pretty big step up, half life's xen just feels like a meme

[PsyWarVeteran]

Originally posted by a grilled cheese sandwich:

half life's xen just feels like a meme

That's because you played it when it was a meme.

[a grilled cheese sandwich]

Originally posted by PsyWarVeteran:

Originally posted by a grilled cheese sandwich:

half life's xen just feels like a meme

That's because you played it when it was a meme.

ehhh, no it still feels like a meme to me

[Sikobae]

Originally posted by Cat:

swim through water with 2 alien sharks

I feel sorry for you if you're struggling with Ichthyosaurs in BM.

[calembredaine]

last time i played the fishes in bm were the ones struggling.

can't be countered by the crowbar anymore, but they always refused to bite me more than once, as if gordon actually tasted bad or something.

[calembredaine]

tbh i thank god they missed the point. bm is way funnier to look at as an "alternate universe" fanfic with way too much effort poured into it. being naively hopeful we'd get a good, faithful remake is just not worth it in comparison.

Originally posted by Graceful Jabberwocky:

it sucks in both

did that guy get permabanned ? this sucks. i like this guy.

[Graceful Jabberwocky]

Originally posted by calembredaine:

Originally posted by Graceful Jabberwocky:

it sucks in both

did that guy get permabanned ? this sucks. i like this guy.

no, i just got a community ban, and i appreciate the compliment.

but as i said in another post that got deleted, xen is awful in both games.
i haven't played bm since 2020 so i can't say if it's worse than hl1, but even if it is hl1's xen is still awful

[Romolus104]

Whoever listens to the soundtracks frequently, do you also listen to the Black Mesa Xen tracks? And did you group them in the same playlist as the earlier BM tracks?