Best approach for making class usefull?

[OnlyOffensive]

So ive got gunner class unlocked, but the guy is completely useless ( very hard ) due to levels knight and merc. It seems to happen with any dps oriented classes who had to get levels in non +atk classes.

This gunner cant do any damage because of gimped ATK. So whats better, hire recruit with full gunner stats and try to get him passives and AP on patrols? ( Scaled patrols on very hard almost impossible to improve your team and for some reason give kinda low AP) or reset level for that guy and level him in appropriate class?

[Rynielz]

Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:

yes, there are ways to control / criple with gunner, thats good in general, and dont forget that mercenary can be dispeled at any moment or have barrier. COnsidering how limited you are in team setup. ( I really like to use gadgeteer/alchemystic and peddler/ranger on progress for support + one dedicated healer ) other classes need to pull their weight. Im pretty sure there are some very good combination for reaver like reaver/assassin/templar/duelist? I cant say whats good for reaver yet.

Gambler is also VERY powerfull as support. Quicken on your butcher, charming enemies etc... lets say gambler is sole reason i managed to do bridge on very hard, gambler and peddler to be precise.

Also on the topic of gamblers.... i cant see good duo class for it. My gambler for now druid ( Doublecast works on cards/quicken??? ).

Oh I like the ones you're using, I also always tend to bring those classes, but I use them in different combos like Gadgeteer/Peddler and I stick the Alchemystic to the healer, and a Vampire as main ranged class.
Reaver also have beastly combos, paired with Templar was my way to go in my previous playthrough.

Gambler : Cards can not be doublecasted, while others things can. Enjoy :)

[Conan The Librarian]

Gambler is a great class to tack onto many things because they're super versatile, and because their wildcard abilities are free mana cost. Go and put it on a caster so they have something "caster-like" to do while charging mana. Go and put it on a melee hero to have "some ranged options and utility" available. Personally, I like the "support" hero, and combine Gambler with Peddler or Gadgeteer.

As for Reaver-

Things are RNG in terms of what passives / loadout they have, so they're not "always" utilizing [Dual Wield], and certainly not "early", as [Dual Wield] is an advanced passive. Having "low HP" for Reaver is not actually good, but bad. They thrive on having a larger health pool since their defenses are weaker. Yes, they have moves which thrive on "being low health", but that's just by percentage. You want to use these moves, yes, but you don't want to die.

[OnlyOffensive]

Originally posted by Ryniel:

Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:

yes, there are ways to control / criple with gunner, thats good in general, and dont forget that mercenary can be dispeled at any moment or have barrier. COnsidering how limited you are in team setup. ( I really like to use gadgeteer/alchemystic and peddler/ranger on progress for support + one dedicated healer ) other classes need to pull their weight. Im pretty sure there are some very good combination for reaver like reaver/assassin/templar/duelist? I cant say whats good for reaver yet.

Gambler is also VERY powerfull as support. Quicken on your butcher, charming enemies etc... lets say gambler is sole reason i managed to do bridge on very hard, gambler and peddler to be precise.

Also on the topic of gamblers.... i cant see good duo class for it. My gambler for now druid ( Doublecast works on cards/quicken??? ).

Oh I like the ones you're using, I also always tend to bring those classes, but I use them in different combos like Gadgeteer/Peddler and I stick the Alchemystic to the healer, and a Vampire as main ranged class.
Reaver also have beastly combos, paired with Templar was my way to go in my previous playthrough.

Gambler : Cards can not be doublecasted, while others things can. Enjoy :)

The reason i use gadgeeter / alchemystic combo is to cast mass haste first turn. I guess once you get mana passive it doesnt really matters, but i like having both gadgeteer passives on top of smart casting and something else, so maining gadgeteer in that combo seems good to me. And peddler/range does surprisingly good damage, I didnt know at first who to stick with peddler, but ranger resulted in good damage when needed + some control from roots always good when you are not sure traps will work.

[OnlyOffensive]

Originally posted by Conan The Librarian:

Gambler is a great class to tack onto many things because they're super versatile, and because their wildcard abilities are free mana cost. Go and put it on a caster so they have something "caster-like" to do while charging mana. Go and put it on a melee hero to have "some ranged options and utility" available. Personally, I like the "support" hero, and combine Gambler with Peddler or Gadgeteer.

As for Reaver-

Things are RNG in terms of what passives / loadout they have, so they're not "always" utilizing [Dual Wield], and certainly not "early", as [Dual Wield] is an advanced passive. Having "low HP" for Reaver is not actually good, but bad. They thrive on having a larger health pool since their defenses are weaker. Yes, they have moves which thrive on "being low health", but that's just by percentage. You want to use these moves, yes, but you don't want to die.

Oh yeah, gambler gadgeteer seems like a good idea. Initiative into buff gadget seems pretty good.

Reaver by itself... i dunno, it seems luckluster in terms of damage and it doesnt offer any kind of support. I think i will try to find something to pair it with, i just cant figure what yet. Maybe one of the secret classes?

I have vampire/werewolf now but they seem underwhelming, especially vampire. Class relies solely on bleed, when there is chance half on enemies on map will be immune to it, not to add barriers and stuff.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:

Also on the topic of gamblers.... i cant see good duo class for it. My gambler for now druid ( Doublecast works on cards/quicken??? ).

You can Doublecast both Quicken and Charm. Using your Cards or Heal / Bleed / etc. Spells to build MP and/or equipping Economy, then dumping Charms everywhere is one of the more potent ways to cheese any basic encounter. Gambler also works well with things like Peddler, Plague Doctor, or Gadgeteer, with or without Doublecast.

Depends on exactly what your party needs, but Gambler is a good utility skillset that shines on units that need 0-MP options / ranged options / general hole-filling. It's comparable to, well, Gadgeteer and Peddler in those ways, and their ability to all play well together comes from how distinct they are from each other, so despite having similar roles in the secondary slot, they have very little natural overlap, and combining them for make for some strong disruptive-support units.

[OnlyOffensive]

plague doctor, huh. Im not a big fun of that class. I mean his bursts are pretty good, but other than that he doesnt do much imo. Cant see a point of gambler / doctor really.

Now that i think about it gambler druid seems really good and maybe some other class later? With doublecast and stuff.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:

plague doctor, huh. Im not a big fun of that class. I mean his bursts are pretty good, but other than that he doesnt do much imo. Cant see a point of gambler / doctor really.

Permanence + Charm is great. Permanence + Charm + Doublecast is better, especially since most of Plague Doctor's own skillset also gets a lot more useful with Doublecast. All of these effects can also get the range boost of a Staff, alongside the Plague Doctor's bulky equipment options and Fortitude that blocks Bleed / Poison. It's a powerful debuffing unit that's excellent at disruption and difficult for opponents to kill, even on higher difficulties.

Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:

Reaver by itself... i dunno, it seems luckluster in terms of damage and it doesnt offer any kind of support. I think i will try to find something to pair it with, i just cant figure what yet. Maybe one of the secret classes?

Reaver pairs well with classes that give it support options like Fellblade or Templar. Templar is common since Righteous Blade off the Reaver's high ATK stat will usually oneshot opponents, and Reaver can benefit greatly from the utility aspects of that skillset. Options like Mercenary or Knight are also useful for the same reason. Basically, Reaver tends to be built similarly to Marked, except with pure-ATK-stat favoring.

Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:

I have vampire/werewolf now but they seem underwhelming, especially vampire. Class relies solely on bleed, when there is chance half on enemies on map will be immune to it, not to add barriers and stuff.

Vampire is deceptively good. Thrown Dagger is a valuable skill at high difficulties, and even when you don't have Bleed online, its abilities are surprisingly potent. Bleed can also come from both the Druid and Scoundrel classes, and has a long duration, so spreading it around to get the "bonus" effects isn't too difficult. The real shine of Vampire, though, is its good equipment options and Passives. Its a mobile ranged fighter, and its Charm ability is virtually unblockable - so it can scoot in, Charm something, and then scoot back out once you've unlocked its Bat Form Passive. It also has really good play with the Warmage class and its Infused Edge ability, as many of the effects on Vampire's skillset are classed as Spells, and Vampires have innate Guns and Longbows.

[OnlyOffensive]

but all vampire abilities are like 1-3 range, hows it ranged.

[Conan The Librarian]

Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:

but all vampire abilities are like 1-3 range, hows it ranged.

As Raven stated above, Vampires have Gun and Bow weapon proficiency (and also Rapier).

[OnlyOffensive]

but dont those abilities still have 1-3 range even with gun/bow?

Good advice though. I had one candidate to try out vampire, but i decided to make him into duelist ( havent seen it abilities yet so dunno if its good ). But maybe ill make him vampire.

Vampire/warmage seems like a long shot though, and that character is already constantly leeching.

[Conan The Librarian]

Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:

but dont those abilities still have 1-3 range even with gun/bow?

Good advice though. I had one candidate to try out vampire, but i decided to make him into duelist ( havent seen it abilities yet so dunno if its good ). But maybe ill make him vampire.

Vampire/warmage seems like a long shot though, and that character is already constantly leeching.

Verify in game the precise range of abilities. Many are fixed ranges, some have "Range = Weapon". But yes, you are right that most of their abilities have fixed ranges, and that their "regular attack" with a gun or bow is what will have "the most range" for them. It's ok though, as their general mobility helps them use their abilities in combat (to be able to get close to enemies to use them).

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:

but dont those abilities still have 1-3 range even with gun/bow?

Warmage's Infused Edge allows them to combo a weapon attack with a spell. It ignores that spell's Area of Effect, but allows it to be cast at the range of their weapon. So, it allows Vampire's very short-ranged Spells to be cast at the range of the Bow / Gun, at little drawback, since Vampire only has one spell with an associated AOE. (And, due to that one Spell's formula, its still not the worst thing in the world to use with Infused Edge, in a pinch.)

[OnlyOffensive]

yea, i like your idea of vampire/warmage. I could use mobile character with flying / charm and looks like decent damage ( i mean warmage by itself is already great damage )

[MetalHev]

Gunners are support classes, see how none of their skills have huge multipliers. Your best bet for doing good damage with his skills is to get the high ground and use Opportunistic Bullet.
Other than that, you can pair it with dual wield and warmage for the lulz.

[OnlyOffensive]

i dunno, initially i thought gunner is great debuffer, but he has like 50% chance which is super terrible coupled with kinda low damage. Gunner is excellent class to use for focus though. Im currently trying to make one of the sidekicks into assassin/gunner, not bad, but gunner skills are def on the weak side.

When i finish my vampire/warmage ill have 2 warmages already, dont want to overflow game with them.