[Game Design] Aegis Plate: is this counterintuitive or was it just me?

[Game Soup]

I'm referring to needing the Aegis plate in order to bypass the spike trap hallway in the cathedral. Others have mentioned similar strange things getting the underwater shard from a fish and where to go after getting the silver bromide, but this one stands out to me because of the Twin Dragon Tower area.

--After you get invert you can explore the tower entirely, but the 3D perspective of the area means that a 2D minimap can't properly display the locations you're in and headed to. So you can't really tell which pockets of the tower you haven't explored because the minimap might show blue while you've actually missed something.
--And that something is the aegis plate, which DOES NOT appear as a chest on the minimap (I think it's only for blue chests?). Of course it's fine to gate the player and encourage them to explore, but this particular chest is pretty easy to miss because of the minimap issue.

Unless I'm mistaken, the plate is required to progress in the game and this is the only place you can get it. If this is true, then in my opinion it sort of breaks the natural progression flow in the game, and if you can't remember if you checked that particular corner of the map, you'll be stuck for a very long time.

If you managed to get the Aegis plate without stumbling upon it purely by accident, please feel free to correct me. I'm not saying this progression step is a "problem," it was just a little unusual in my experience.

[SmallGespenst]

The Aegis plate is one of the big mistakes that the game makes, and honestly would work much better if it was switched with the valkyrie armour, as is the special collectable is easy to find, just notice the hole in the ceiling an use invert, and the progression item requires a significant leap in logic.

[Seraphita]

I will say here, the aegis plat is the only thing I hated about this game. Impossible to find, jeez.

[SmallGespenst]

Originally posted by Sera:

I will say here, the aegis plat is the only thing I hated about this game. Impossible to find, jeez.

it's aegis plate and the shard that lets you swim for me, I love the game, but tying progress to a random drop is unforgivable.

[Aigatsu]

I guess it depends on how people explore the castle. I, for example, had no problem in finding the aegis plate, because I always remembered that killing the dragons had seemingly no purpose and that there is just that useless area to the far right of the dragons. And when I explored that spot with invert, I actually spotted the chest with the aegis plate and just had to figure out how to get it. In my opinion, the part after accuiring the silver bromide was way more difficult to figure out, as I don't think that talking to the librarian as the means to progress is obvious.

[Moichumoi]

I've been able to pass the spikes without aegis plate. This is how I had done it the first time. Just need to backdash quick and have multiple potions. Backdash belt help a lot too.

[SilentCaay]

It's a good puzzle but maybe slightly harder than it should be. I recently solved it on my own. All the hints are there.

The map is missing at the top of the tower so you go back to check it out once you have Invert. Then there's a chest near the Aegis chest so you explore that area and notice the Aegis chest. Then you run around wondering how to get it. The biggest hint is that the Aegis chest isn't on the same rotational track as the 3D tower sections so after you scratch your head a bit you remember there's a part of the outdoor section that extends past the rotational track and it all clicks into place.

One thing that could have been changed to make it easier would be to move the two chests much closer together. When you're getting the first chest, the Aegis chest barely peeks around the corner so you might miss it if you're not paying attention. The glowy spikes right next to it are good to draw your eye and to test the armor, though.

Originally posted by Aigatsu:

I always remembered that killing the dragons had seemingly no purpose

Killing Twin Dragons gives you Silver Bromide which unlocks the entire Sorcery Lab. It's a huge progression point (as long as you figure out or look up the Pass Card part).

[fender178]

Originally posted by awhurley:

Originally posted by Sera:

I will say here, the aegis plat is the only thing I hated about this game. Impossible to find, jeez.

it's aegis plate and the shard that lets you swim for me, I love the game, but tying progress to a random drop is unforgivable.

By process of elimination is how I found which Chest the Aegis Plate. With me I had 2 chests remaining that were not part of the chests that respawn that I have not checked out. One chest that I found contained the Valkyrie armor. The other chest had spikes near it which is the chest that contained the Aegis Plate. But getting to it was the confusing thing. I tried climbing the tower inverted and that didn't work I tried it for a good 5-10 mins. Then I had to look up a YouTube Video on how to do it. Yeah the Shard that allows you to move underwater is confusing at first but with me I read various threads talking about where to get the shard and I got hints form that.

[Timmy Squibbles]

I had tanked my way through the spikes with bundles of food because I didn't read the armor description. Thanks for that amazing i-frame count. :D

[Silvershadow]

Didnt even know the aegis Plate existed in the game and played through the game without twice, had no problems.

[MrFluffyWolf]

Originally posted by Aigatsu:

I guess it depends on how people explore the castle. I, for example, had no problem in finding the aegis plate, because I always remembered that killing the dragons had seemingly no purpose and that there is just that useless area to the far right of the dragons. And when I explored that spot with invert, I actually spotted the chest with the aegis plate and just had to figure out how to get it. In my opinion, the part after accuiring the silver bromide was way more difficult to figure out, as I don't think that talking to the librarian as the means to progress is obvious.

I think the aegis plate is a bit harder to figure out if you don't just immediately remember, because the silver bromide has way more people telling you what to do with it.
Near the beginning of the game, by just exploring your HQ in Arvantville you'll find the camera. Interact with it and Dominique tells you that it needs silver bromide. When you try to pass the train barrier, it unlocks dialogue with Dominique and I think O.D as well that tells you exactly what to do. Unless you either forget O.D is a Vampire when you're given the hint that "only vampires can access the train" or haven't found O.D yet (not sure if that's possible) then the solution for getting on the train is basically handed to you for free. Unless you just... never return to base for supplies and alchemy?

[XenoEvil]

Something that I want to know is how did people figure out that the iron maidens can be moved with craftwork? Was I the only person who stuck after getting the aegis armor instead before it?

[Sakhari]

Originally posted by XenoEvil:

Something that I want to know is how did people figure out that the iron maidens can be moved with craftwork? Was I the only person who stuck after getting the aegis armor instead before it?

Yeah, that one frustrated me too. The game, at several key points, establishes that craftwork-movable objects are generally clearly highlighted but then changes the rules in that case for some reason. I finally figured it out via trial-and-error on the assumption that I must already have what I need since I'd just gotten finished inverting the rest of the bloody castle for all the remaining loot that I could see.

[LadstonFelisGaming]

None of the “major progression stumbling blocks” gave me any problems. It helps to be familiar with how post-SoTN Castlevania games handle their progression through use of similar tricks (SoTN had the Spike Breaker and targeting something other than the supposed final boss during the fight, Aria of Sorrow had you killing the supposed final boss while equipped with three particular souls, only one of which was a guaranteed find on the beaten path with the remainder being drops from normal enemies).

[SilentCaay]

Originally posted by XenoEvil:

Something that I want to know is how did people figure out that the iron maidens can be moved with craftwork? Was I the only person who stuck after getting the aegis armor instead before it?

I just tried it. Seemed likely due to the size and shape.

Later on I was surprised to find out that you can also neutralize them by putting an enemy in one and then push it around. =P

[Deep Weeb]

Agreed, it's easier to find the Valkyrie armor first, and then the Aegis one, and without reading the description most people will dismiss it for being inferior to the Valkyrie armor.

I feel that when it mentions "traps and hazardous environments" on the description it could be much more obvious, examplifying spikes as one of them.

Additionally, Dominque doesn't seems to give any sort of clue on what to do next after your get the inverse shard. (Plus, all of her hints seem to be random 1-time only with no way of repeating them)