Maybe im just really clumsy but this game is super frustrating

[Sherman]

so I heard so much about this game being the absolute perfect fps rpg, where you can play any way you want to, from stealthy to hit and run to all out assault tactics. normally i play these games 85% stealthy but these bad guys are the most jumpy ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ i've ever encountered in a game. as soon as they hear a pin drop they run off to sound the alarm. im in a room, totally alone when i smacked a guy in the back of the head with a crowbar, no cameras, no other people othing. all of a sudden the guy like 4 rooms over says "i think i heard something" and sounds the alarm and now i have to deal with multiple enemies that know exactly where i am and soak up all the damage i throw at them.

am i just terrible at this game?

[Calton1]

Possibly, but it may be that you're just a little impatient. Obviously, if you alert the enemy and haven't planned whether you can take them (usually just one) down before they sound an alarm you're going to attract unwanted attention.

Decide on your favourite weapons and upgrade them when you get the skill points.

My favourites, in no particular order (particular missions require different weapons):
Sniper rifle, stealth pistol, combat knife rather than crowbar (does same job and takes up less rroom), riot prod, mini-crossbow, flamethower, GEP gun, assault rifle, and various 'demolition' grenades.

I never use the baton, pepper gun, swords, throwing knives, pistol (stealth one is better), shotguns, and having tried it, the plasma gun (it's useless).

With careful upgrading you'll be able to take out a target a mile away with the sniper rifle, the mini-crossbow should enable you to tranquillise a target if you don't want to kill him, and, when confronted with a bunch of them coming at you the flamethrower will take them all out if close enough.

There are cameras in various locations but you can disable them with either an EMP grenade or by hacking a computer terminal. Failing that throw a LAM at them and you'll take out any guns as well.

There are also grates and other places you can hide out in until any alarm stops and your opponent(s) move away.

Isn't just a bit more realistic that your enemy are smart enough to be alert rather than so dumb you could just ignore them?

Although Invisible War and Human Revolution lay claim to the title, there's only one Deus Ex, so take your time and enjoy one of the best games ever made.

Bye-the-bye, I also love Outcast 1.1 and Far Cry 2, so you can see that I'm someone who just loves the best... :)

[Sherman]

so should i just bumble through the statue of liberty? will the alarm make things more difficult later or is it localized?

[InfestedAdam]

I think killing enemies instead of using non-lethal takedown result in them screaming out thus alerting nearby guards. Though I've had a few incidents where I took down a guard with a baton and somehow that still alerted a nearby guard. Though in this case maybe the body collapsing was still within the field-of-vision for the guard.

[Calton1]

If you try to "bumble" through any part of the game you're likely end up dead.

Always check what information you're given, and for the Statue of Liberty, head to the North Dock as instructed, then go in the back way. You're going to face not only enemies but hidden traps, so save, proceed, save, proceed.

This mission should serve as a good training for what's to come, basic training that is.

And remember, your bosses know what you're doing. I took out someone I knew from a previous play that was one of the 'bad guys' and they knew and reprimanded me - despite there being no cameras or witnesses.

As I said, you're invariably one way or another being watched, so when taking out an enemy have an escape plan ready - and I don't remember an enemy screaming but if taken down in sight of another then expect to attract attention, so if nowhere to hide, run!

You might make mistakes, a lot of mistakes, when playing the game for the first time, but you'll soon learn from them, so persevere.

And remember, if you can hack a console you can disable cameras and open doors.

[dunbaratu]

Originally posted by InfestedAdam:

I think killing enemies instead of using non-lethal takedown result in them screaming out thus alerting nearby guards

With the exception of the tranquilizer darts. Those are a non-lethal takedown, but they make people make tons of noise on their way out as they run about in a panic. That's a bit frustrating because it seems that the only quiet takedown from a distance is the lethal one - sniper rifle to the head. The only way to be both quiet and non-lethal, it seems, is to be up close and personal with the electric prod, and that's limited by ammo charges, so you can't really do it to more than just a few guards here and there.

If you're coming to this game from Thief (actual Thief, not that monstrosity Eidos Montreal made in 2014), some of what you learned in Thief for how to do sneaking will have to be unlearned for Deus Ex, because while Deus Ex is an excellent all-around game blending many different features, it's a sort of jack-of-all-trades master-of-none when it comes to implementing them. It's not the BEST shooter, or the BEST sneaker, or the BEST RPG, but it's the best melded together combo of those in one game.

This means Deus Ex is harder to sneak in than Thief was because there's a number of things it doesn't quite take into account. If you're expecting it to take them into account, that expectatiion will hurt you. Things Deus Ex seems to ignore are: Lighting (you can't hide by standing in a shadow), speed affecting sound (it basically has two levels of sound - full and none. It doesn't have the varying levels depending on how fast you walk - either you're crouched and making no sound, or you're standing and making lots - that's the only two levels available). , No 'ammo-less' takedown (i.e. what you're trying with the crowbar won't work because the crowbar doesn't deal nonlethal damage in Deus Ex. It's not like the Blackjack of Thief. As near as I can tell, there are no pure-silent takedowns that don't end up expending ammo to do it. The number of silent nonlethal takedowns you can do will be limited by ammo the game lets you find, meaning you won't be able to do a silent nonlethal take down on more than just a few enemies per area most likely. There will always be more enemies than ammo to use on them, provided you're trying to go all nonlethal and thus really only have access to two kinds of usable ammo - tranq darts and prod charges.

Sneaking in Deus Ex requires using the few things it does allow you to use:
1 - Distance - most guards can't see very far, except the few that are designated as snipers.
2 - Toggle crouch - in crouch mode, the game makes you walk quieter. There is no "stand up but move slow enough not to make noise", it seems - so crouch a lot.
3 - Most takedowns attract attention except for: prod shock, and insta-hill sniper rifle headshots (although seeing the dead body will arouse alarm when someone walks across it later).
4 - Lean keys "q" and "e" - it seems the guards tend to "see" you only if your center is in their line of sight, not if you poke your head around a corner but leave your center of mass back behind the corner.
5 - crawspaces - lots and lots of crawlspaces.
6 - tech gear for hiding (thermographic camo armor, nano agumentations, etc).
7 - guards tend not to look up until they get shot at - so rooftops are good.

Deus Ex was not the best sneaker, that title goes to Thief. But Thief was exclusively a sneaker only. Deus Ex is still a pretty good sneaker, though, considering that sneaking wasn't its primary only thing, and considering how many other things it does too.

[MedievalKnievel]

Originally posted by Vincent Fettucine:

so should i just bumble through the statue of liberty? will the alarm make things more difficult later or is it localized?

This game is interesting in that it gets seemingly easier the father into the game you play. As you put points into your skills you will become noticably better at whichever area you so choose. When I started off my skills with a pistol were terrible at best. I would have to come to a complete stop, crouch, aim at my target and wait for the reticle to close in all the way to get a single shot off with my mini-crossbow. As I play more I always put points into my pistol skill and before I know it I can effectively "run-n-gun" with my mini-crossbow. I usually never stop moving (while sneaking) and can efficiently land stealth headshots with darts, whereas in the Statue of Liberty mission I'm stuck with the clumsy process I mentioned at the top of this post.

Just keep playing and leveling up your skills and you'll see a notable increase in your overall gameplay efficiency beofe too long.

[Sherman]

so update, i got to the same place in the statue (the room where gunther is kept) by sneaking past everyone because all the guards are legally blind. but im still stuck i can pretty much only kill these three guys i have no quiet non lethal way to isolate and execute them. should i just steal the batton and whack away?

[Calton1]

You have no "non lethal way to isolate and execute them"? Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, but there's just the slightest contradiction in what you seem to be saying and the way you appear to want to play the game. And you're intent on using the baton, something I never use? Still, whoever 'they' are, being "legally blind" I'm guessing you could just saunter past the poor unfortunates.

If I may borrow a well known catchphrase, Vincent, "you're fired!"

And to add insult to injury, perhaps you would be better 'whacking away'.

This may be the point where I best stop giving advice and await your next update... :)

[Sherman]

Originally posted by alexcrolla_1:

You have no "non lethal way to isolate and execute them"? Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, but there's just the slightest contradiction in what you seem to be saying and the way you appear to want to play the game. And you're intent on using the baton, something I never use? Still, whoever 'they' are, being "legally blind" I'm guessing you could just saunter past the poor unfortunates.

If I may borrow a well known catchphrase, Vincent, "you're fired!"

And to add insult to injury, perhaps you would be better 'whacking away'.

This may be the point where I best stop giving advice and await your next update... :)

not a contradiction. im in a room, with one guy patroling and another in the connection hallway. end of the hallway is a guy sitting in a chair with a camera behind him. and the baton on his desk. if i taser and whack one guy his buddies will hear and attack me. stealth doesnt work because the guy at the desk and the camera are looking at exactly where i need to go. i probably wont post another update anyway

[dunbaratu]

Originally posted by Vincent Fettucine:

not a contradiction.

The contradiction is that you said both "execute" and "non-lethal". The fact that you didn't actually mean "execute" when you said "execute" isn't something you can reasonably expect other people to realize. You're the one that chose to say "execute" when you meant something entirely different.

As for your problem, to repeat what I said before, in THIS game the crowbar is NOT a blackjack, and it is NOT quiet. It deals lethal bludgeoning damage, and is loud. If you "taser and whack" a guy, it's the whacking, not the tasering, that's alerting the other guards.

What you need to do to get a silent takedown with the shocker is to "taser and taser", not "taser and whack". Re-use the shock prod again on the guy when the guy is in shock and vibrating. Some people fall unconsious in two taserings, some fall in three. But most don't fall unconscious in just one, except people who are both civilian and unawares. If they're a guard or soldier, it will take at least 2 back-to-back shockings to take them down silently. If you shock them, and then switch to a lethal loud weapon, then the fact that you shocked them won't make the weapon any quieter than it would have been on its own.

The fact that the shocker has a different effect on its second usage on the same target than it had on its first usage isn't really explained anywhere in the tutorial, as far as I remember - you just have to find it out by accident.

The fact that Deus Ex doesn't really have an ammo-less way to do a nonlethal silent takedown is a bit disappointing. The only means of doing it is one that consumes ammo, and it's a kind of ammo you don't find enough of to use it on everyone. So the ammo limit will determine how many enemies you can silently takedown in a nonlethal way, rather than your skill at the game, unfortunately.

If the game had wanted to encourage nonlethal tactics, they shouldn't have made nonlethal methds so ammo-limited it's impossible to carry them out on more than a few targets. To avoid draining ammo, you have to use melee weapons, but they are all lethal and loud. There's no ammo-less quiet nonlethal melee weapon in the game.

(Constrast that with Thief, in which the blackjack doesn't have a limited number of uses).

[Sherman]

Originally posted by dunbaratu:

Originally posted by Vincent Fettucine:

not a contradiction.

The contradiction is that you said both "execute" and "non-lethal". The fact that you didn't actually mean "execute" when you said "execute" isn't something you can reasonably expect other people to realize. You're the one that chose to say "execute" when you meant something entirely different.

As for your problem, to repeat what I said before, in THIS game the crowbar is NOT a blackjack, and it is NOT quiet. It deals lethal bludgeoning damage, and is loud. If you "taser and whack" a guy, it's the whacking, not the tasering, that's alerting the other guards.

What you need to do to get a silent takedown with the shocker is to "taser and taser", not "taser and whack". Re-use the shock prod again on the guy when the guy is in shock and vibrating. Some people fall unconsious in two taserings, some fall in three. But most don't fall unconscious in just one, except people who are both civilian and unawares. If they're a guard or soldier, it will take at least 2 back-to-back shockings to take them down silently. If you shock them, and then switch to a lethal loud weapon, then the fact that you shocked them won't make the weapon any quieter than it would have been on its own.

The fact that the shocker has a different effect on its second usage on the same target than it had on its first usage isn't really explained anywhere in the tutorial, as far as I remember - you just have to find it out by accident.

The fact that Deus Ex doesn't really have an ammo-less way to do a nonlethal silent takedown is a bit disappointing. The only means of doing it is one that consumes ammo, and it's a kind of ammo you don't find enough of to use it on everyone. So the ammo limit will determine how many enemies you can silently takedown in a nonlethal way, rather than your skill at the game, unfortunately.

If the game had wanted to encourage nonlethal tactics, they shouldn't have made nonlethal methds so ammo-limited it's impossible to carry them out on more than a few targets. To avoid draining ammo, you have to use melee weapons, but they are all lethal and loud. There's no ammo-less quiet nonlethal melee weapon in the game.

(Constrast that with Thief, in which the blackjack doesn't have a limited number of uses).

WHOA THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING. I CAN USE THE TASER TWICE? this is revolutionary i totally thought it was a once effect with a small chance to knock out. and by isolate and execute im referring to the technique of luring a baddie away to deal with him not necessarily lethally. anyway though i had no idea the taser actually knocks people out i though i had to use the crowbar. is an ammo sucker though you're right.

[dunbaratu]

Originally posted by Vincent Fettucine:

WHOA THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING. I CAN USE THE TASER TWICE? this is revolutionary i totally thought it was a once effect with a small chance to knock out.

Yeah the game does a horrible (read: nonexistent) job of teching you this particular game mechanic is how it's supposed to work. It looks for all the world like a device that merely stuns people briefly and that's all it does - which would be nearly useless as it guarantees a hostile and aware guard once the stun wears off.

I played the game all the way to the end once before, on a second play through, discovering this is how the prod was supposed to work.

Still wish there was a way to do a knockout without it being ammo-limited, though. Or at least allow reasonable recharge of the prod - I mean if it's electrical, you should be able to charge it with the electricity charging robots, but you can't.

[Calton1]

I tend to play the game as I see fit, but others have different approaches, so I'll try and keep my view simple:

I have an objective to achieve.

How I achieve it is irrelevant, and I'll use whatever means necessary, both lethal and non-lethal.

I know the weapons I'm most likely to need for various missions, as well as the skills required, and upgrade them when possible.

When viewing any location I keep a lookout for anything which might hinder attaining the objective and if I can't circumvent it I find a way of removing it.

I've already given my weapon preferences, and having played the game many times there are reasons for those preferences - and the crowbar and baton aren't among them.

I have psychopathic tendencies.


As for the prod (taser) you can upgrade its' capabilities and take down others more efficiently, but you still have to get close enough to use it, which can prove risky at times.

Downing someone with the mini-crossbow from a distance might prove a better option, depending on circumstances, and that too will need upgrading.

And there are going to be times when you're going to have to employ more than one weapon (a gas grenade quickly followed by pistol, or mini-crossbow for example).

And if all else fails, run, run like the wind!

Reading the manual might/will help, but I have a feeling JC is going to come to an untimely end, and many times... :)

(Can't wait to see Vincent using the prod on a - no, best not spoil things.)

[talgaby]

On what? The prod is the only non-lethal weapon that is effective on every human enemy.

[Calton1]

You know that not all enemies are human, and aren't other weapons non-lethal?

Anyway, at some point, Vincent can discover which weapons are best suited to particular situations.

This time around I thought I'd give the Plasma rifle a go, and soon found it a waste of valuable space. No doubt others may disagree.