The plot fork where you keep Paul alive - is it worth the PITA to do it?

[dunbaratu]

I'm trying to trigger the plot fork where you keep Paul alive in Hell's Kitchen. Apparently you have to NOT exit through the window and instead go out the front door, fighting your way with your brother.

But it's really frustrating because, like all "escort missions" in games, it's a PITA to not trigger the arbitrary 'fail' conditions that make no sense. It seems that any time Paul chooses on his own to run ahead of me, once he gets more than a very very short distance ahead, the game despawns him and I "fail" to keep him alive (even though he's fine, and we're beating the enemies and he wasn't hit or hurt at all) that distance fail is really annoying because it insists that I'm not allowed to fight intelligently, advancing slowly one enemy at a time. Instead, to keep him from getting too far away, I have to stupidly run in among the enemies all guns blazing, because that's what HE does.

I'm getting tired of re-trying this again and again and again, so I'm asking for some spoilers from people who have gotten this to work - is it worth it for me to bother? Does it open up any forks in the plot that do interesting things I won't have previously seen in other play thoughs?

[Calton1]

This has already been discussed in another thread, but if you want a quick answer, it's "No".

Regardless of whether you manage to save Paul or not the writers couldn't come up with any useful reason for his continued participation in proceedings, so he basically has served his purpose and 'disappears' from the game.

If you find the thread you'll discover that my many 'cunning plans' fail, and on the rare occasions I manage to save him the only benefit is one of quiet satisfaction.

[Mars]

I do it every playthrough now. I just load the hall with LAMs. Not very immersion-friendly, but what the hell, I've seen the cutscenes plenty of times.

[dunbaratu]

Originally posted by Mad Mike Marsbergen:

I do it every playthrough now. I just load the hall with LAMs. Not very immersion-friendly, but what the hell, I've seen the cutscenes plenty of times.

Yeah, but that requires replaying the whole thing from the start, because I have to know to save my LAMs for that scene. As it is, I only have the one, which I use to lay a trap for the first few of them that burst through the door to the apartment. And there's nowhere within that map to get more of them, without going back a few missions to much earlier saves.

And again, to re-iterate, I lose Paul NOT because of the fight, but because of the ridiculous 'fail' conditions on the mission, which like all horribly designed escort missions in FPS games, makes you fail for utterly illogical reasons you are helpless to prevent. If you didn't stand immediately adjacent to the person at all times, turned your back for a moment, and he despawns for walking too far away from you.

The reason people despise escort missions so much in games is because most of the time when you fail them, you're failing because the AI for the person you're trying to protect did something dumb, or because the parameters of the mission ridiculously restrict you from using your best tactics. It's frustrating to fail over and over because the game's designers did something wrong, rather than because YOU did.

[Mars]

If it bugs you that much, and you don't want to restart the game, you can always cheat and get yourself some more LAMs.

[Nash]

Yeah the AI is really finnicky, if you don't keep him in your sight constantly, he just disappears. I put a quicksave just before the MIBs storm in and just reload from there if he despawns. Just stay behind him, chuck gas grenades to the enemies to prevent them from shooting you, let Paul clean the place up and just hope he makes it to the 'Ton entrance

[talgaby]

You all do know that if you just go out the hall and get yourself killed, you not only skip the entire escort mission but also keep Paul alive, right? It is the second fastest route from that scenario apart from climbing out the window and jump to your death. After the raid is triggered, any time you die you end up in the prison, you don't have to get to Battery Park.

[dunbaratu]

Originally posted by talgaby:

You all do know that if you just go out the hall and get yourself killed, you not only skip the entire escort mission but also keep Paul alive, right?

I'm aware that plenty of people have CLAIMED this. But are YOU aware that it never actually happened that way when I tried doing this? Over and over and over... It would be followed always by me being locked up alone, rather than with Paul in any of the cells (which is what people claim happens when Paul lives).

I just said, "screw it", if people who have succeeded at doing it say it doesn't affect the plot in any real way than it's not worth bothering with anymore, especially with all the advice being false like this.

[Foxpass]

Paul doesn't end up in any of the cells near you. You run into him later, in a different part of the facility. Listen to Daedalus. If you haven't gone past the cell block, you have probably kept him alive many times without realizing it, because it's really not that hard. You just have to make it to the lobby with him alive. (He will despawn whether he lives or dies, that is not the indication that he has died.)

[dunbaratu]

Originally posted by Foxpass:

Paul doesn't end up in any of the cells near you. You run into him later, in a different part of the facility. Listen to Daedalus. If you haven't gone past the cell block, you have probably kept him alive many times without realizing it, because it's really not that hard. You just have to make it to the lobby with him alive. (He will despawn whether he lives or dies, that is not the indication that he has died.)

The thing that actually made me assume he was dead was the conversation with the other captured NSF prisoner in the other cell, who says Paul died in conversation with you.

Granted, it's possible that conversation is bugged and he says that even when Paul is alive.

[talgaby]

Originally posted by dunbaratu:

I'm aware that plenty of people have CLAIMED this. But are YOU aware that it never actually happened that way when I tried doing this? Over and over and over... It would be followed always by me being locked up alone, rather than with Paul in any of the cells (which is what people claim happens when Paul lives).

I am not claiming. I did this almost a dozen times without failing once. Even before switching to the GOTY edition, so it's not even a patch-related thing, it has always worked.
Paul is always at the medical bay of the prison facility, either dead on the table or standing alive next to it. You can learn whether he is alive or dead either from Miguel or when you exit the cell block and Daedelus contacts you about Paul's location. If he is alive, you'll hear a message stating he is alive, but with a damaged infolink.

[dunbaratu]

Originally posted by talgaby:

Originally posted by dunbaratu:

I'm aware that plenty of people have CLAIMED this. But are YOU aware that it never actually happened that way when I tried doing this? Over and over and over... It would be followed always by me being locked up alone, rather than with Paul in any of the cells (which is what people claim happens when Paul lives).

I am not claiming. I did this almost a dozen times without failing once. Even before switching to the GOTY edition, so it's not even a patch-related thing, it has always worked.
Paul is always at the medical bay of the prison facility, either dead on the table or standing alive next to it. You can learn whether he is alive or dead either from Miguel or when you exit the cell block and Daedelus contacts you about Paul's location. If he is alive, you'll hear a message stating he is alive, but with a damaged infolink.

The captured NSF prisoner conversation always claimed Paul died, and that's where I would always stop and reload and try again (this is when still in the cell block, before getting out and getting the rest of the mission briefing from Daedelus). It's possible the conversation was bugged and maybe he was in the medical bay anyway despite what the NSF prisoner said, but I took what the prisoner said as canon and reloaded right there every time.

[talgaby]

Miguel says "You're not the only prisoner here" if Paul is alive. To trigger him being alive with your death, make sure you get killed and Paul is still alive when the screen fades.
Going back to the apartment wounded helps a lot. Sometimes Paul manages to kill an MiB and dies in the explosion when the camera spins around you…

[dunbaratu]

Originally posted by talgaby:

Miguel says "You're not the only prisoner here" if Paul is alive.

He's never said that to me, ever. And I was doing exactly what you say works. That's why I just gave up on it. Something is buggy about it and if it doesn't really affect the plot then it's not worth it anymore. I've already gone past this section and I'm not going back again.

[MedievalKnievel]

Keeping Paul alive is literally the easiest thing to do in the game, even on a jacked up difficulty setting. You just have to know how to do it.

When the bad guys appear outside his door open the closet containing the computer terminal, go inside, close the closet via the button on the inside and wait until combat ends. Paul is an essential character and cannot be "killed". Yes, if you go out the window he technically "dies", but this is only because the story says so. In game he cannot be killed via damage. He is an unstoppable tank with the ability to absorb an infinite amount of damage. Try killing him at any point and you'll see what I mean. Just wait in the closet for him to kill all of the bad guys and then leave. You won't see him anywhere, but when you reach Gunther you won't get the "your brother is dead" dialogue, and when you find him in the MJ12 Compund beneath UNATCO HQ he will be alive there as well.

This won't change the core parts of the story at all, but you will be able to see him in other areas and talk to him. It's just a minor change, but it's nice to have the option to "save" him.

[dunbaratu]

Originally posted by MedievalKnievel:

Keeping Paul alive is literally the easiest thing to do in the game, even on a jacked up difficulty setting. You just have to know how to do it.

When the bad guys appear outside his door open the closet containing the computer terminal, go inside, close the closet via the button on the inside and wait until combat ends. Paul is an essential character and cannot be "killed". Yes, if you go out the window he technically "dies", but this is only because the story says so. In game he cannot be killed via damage. He is an unstoppable tank with the ability to absorb an infinite amount of damage. Try killing him at any point and you'll see what I mean. Just wait in the closet for him to kill all of the bad guys and then leave. You won't see him anywhere, but when you reach Gunther you won't get the "your brother is dead" dialogue, and when you find him in the MJ12 Compund beneath UNATCO HQ he will be alive there as well.

This won't change the core parts of the story at all, but you will be able to see him in other areas and talk to him. It's just a minor change, but it's nice to have the option to "save" him.

This advice is no different than the advice I have heard from others and have *already* tried and it didn't work then. I have no reason to believe it would any different on the umpteenth retry of the exact same thing again, and like I said, I already moved on further in the plot anyway.

By the way, when I hide in the closet, Paul *doesn't* kill all the bad guys. He only deals with the first wave that crash through the apartment door, but then doesn't go out to deal with the others in the hotel lobby unless I go out the door with him.