the beloved m1 garand and its historical accuracy

[Jurki]

Since a priority of this game is the historical accuracy of the settings, units and ofc the weapons i really want to discuss the m1 garand in regard to that topic. The M1 Garand had quite the narrow iron sight, limiting the overall field of view. While video games gave the garand an extremely unrealistic wide iron sight (for better situational awareness through a bigger field of view) there is another WW2 shooter with the claim to be historical accurate (*coughing* post scriptum *coughing*).
The iron sight is still a bit wider but ofc closer to the original than the variant in hell let loose which allowes the player to have a slightly wider field of view and thus a slightly better situational awareness without being completely inaccurate regarding the historical original. In regard to these two examples HLL unfortunately fails to deliver on their priority of historical accuracy. A good first step in preventing the M1 Garand to dominate the battlefield might be a more narrow iron sight, forcing the player to be more careful and giving the opponent the chance to react.
Another point which could be useful when it comes to balancing the garand is its recoil. In reality the recoil is much stronger, compensated by the high rate of fire. So the garand wasnt a weapon designed for high range combat.
So there are three points that might be important when it comes to balancing the M1 Garand: increasing the recoil + narrowing the iron sight + a stronger bullet drop on range. That could be a useful combination to balance out the m1 garand while still making it a viable and fun to use weapon in HLL (which is after all still a video game and not reality itself).

[Tenko]

SJ HerrVERMZ の投稿を引用：

-A good first step in preventing the M1 Garand to dominate the battlefield


-in reality the recoil is much stronger, compensated by the high rate of fire. So the garand wasnt a weapon designed for high range combat.

-a stronger bullet drop on range.

-Give it the ugly Peepsights that it actually has.

-Plenty of videos of 9 yearolds Dumping the clip,(you can bumpfire the thing hillariously) and there are videos of people shooting open sights 1000 yards. Weapons are designed to go as far as the bullet allows and the shooter trained.

-If you add more drop you lose Historical accuracy. There is a reason why they adopted the .30-06.

Salty Skramz の投稿を引用：

Can anyone explain why they use the post WW2 manufacturer for the M1 in this game?

Its a Springfield post june/July 1942? They've been making them since like 1937?

[Andy]

tortuga の投稿を引用：

But, to keep complaining about an issue that is no longer valid seems pointless. Who cares what it was before or as it is in another game. It is as it is now so why keep bringing up "how it was".

Obviously, the issue is still valid. The only reason it got changed 'aparently' is through community feedback.
i.e. people complaining.
So, it's entirely possible if that's the theory to get it changed again. Assuming of course. That's why indeed it was changed.
Therefor, it can never be pointless to talk about things you like/dislike in the game.
When you keep suggesting that these complaints arn't valid, yet somehow those changes due to 'more valid complaints' were perfectly ok. It does just look like your trying to suggest that only things you like are valid???
Despite the fact, that no one that liked the old sights would have known about the change till after it happened. But, then. They can't say anything as it's already happened and isn't valid???

[JonDonWayne]

huma474 の投稿を引用：

Andy の投稿を引用：

The original sight HLL used was still wider than real life. And, wasn't complained about.
There was no reason to go to the ridiculously wide version they now have.

Take a piece of paper. Make 3 holes in it, 1 that is only 1 mm wide, 1 that is 5mm wide and one that is 10mm wide. take that piece of paper and look at something 30ft, or 10m, away. now compare what your eye was able to perceive vs what you can see in game. the 1mm hole is what the old M1 sight felt like. In the game they cannot completely recreate the same feeling down the sight in real life because this is an artifical game which cannot fully replicate some of the unique properties of the human eye. If someone has a real M1, try aiming at a target with 1 eye closed, then try aiming at the same target with both eyes open. You won't be able to hit the same points on a target the same way because of how you brain tries to help you process information.

Yep, everybody that has shot a gun that uses diopter, peep sight or normal ironsights knows its pretty useless to shoot these with both eyes open. Also your eyes cant focus right, one level will always be blurry and that makes it even harder to get precise shots, theres a reason why all proffesionals/olympics/snipers keep one eye closed or use eye covers for precision shots. But its another thing if you got optics on your gun...

[tortuga]

Andy の投稿を引用：

tortuga の投稿を引用：

But, to keep complaining about an issue that is no longer valid seems pointless. Who cares what it was before or as it is in another game. It is as it is now so why keep bringing up "how it was".

Obviously, the issue is still valid. The only reason it got changed 'aparently' is through community feedback.
i.e. people complaining.
So, it's entirely possible if that's the theory to get it changed again. Assuming of course. That's why indeed it was changed.
Therefor, it can never be pointless to talk about things you like/dislike in the game.
When you keep suggesting that these complaints arn't valid, yet somehow those changes due to 'more valid complaints' were perfectly ok. It does just look like your trying to suggest that only things you don't like are valid???
Despite the fact, that no one that liked the old sights would have known about the change till after it happened. But, then. They can't say anything as it's already happened and isn't valid???

I have my likes and dislikes about many things in the game and you can twist around to your liking what ever I have said.

Pointless to me to keep complaining about how things were or what happened in 2017 or months ago since the change was made. But, your free have at it also is pointless for me to to continue this conversation with you so, do your thing and enjoy.

[Jedi]

datCookie の投稿を引用：

The original Garand sight that they used was changed because people were complaining about it

From you and everyone who claims that comunity were asking for bigger Garand iron sight I demand evidence. From what I can hear from original backers no one wanted bigger iron sight circle and in my opinion it was changed only to make it more casual friendly.

Are you maybe reffering to this?

https://www.reddit.com/r/HellLetLoose/comments/dj8mr3/m1_garand_iron_sight/

huma474 の投稿を引用：

Andy の投稿を引用：

The original sight HLL used was still wider than real life. And, wasn't complained about.
There was no reason to go to the ridiculously wide version they now have.

Take a piece of paper. Make 3 holes in it, 1 that is only 1 mm wide, 1 that is 5mm wide and one that is 10mm wide. take that piece of paper and look at something 30ft, or 10m, away. now compare what your eye was able to perceive vs what you can see in game. the 1mm hole is what the old M1 sight felt like. In the game they cannot completely recreate the same feeling down the sight in real life because this is an artifical game which cannot fully replicate some of the unique properties of the human eye. If someone has a real M1, try aiming at a target with 1 eye closed, then try aiming at the same target with both eyes open. You won't be able to hit the same points on a target the same way because of how you brain tries to help you process information.

Game from 2008 Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway. HLL is many time reffered to BiA.

http://www.imfdb.org/images/b/b7/RTH30_Baker_Thompson_2.jpg
http://www.imfdb.org/images/6/65/RTH30_Baker_M1_2.jpg
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:RTH30_Baker_Carbine_2.jpg
http://www.imfdb.org/images/c/c6/RTH30_Baker_98k_2.jpg

This is more or less how iron sight looks for human eye. It's inacurrate but at least give the feeling of reality. It's just an animation and I believe that technology is a bit better than 2008 :).

Right now Garand and other weapons iron sight looks like:

1. Grab e.g. Garand rife with both hands.

2. Put binoculars on the strap on your head so you don't have to hold them.

3. Stretch your hands straight forward holding Garand rife.

4. Try to look trough the iron sight this way with your binoculars.

Why it was done like this we can only speculate. Probably they wanted to show the weapons look during ADS and simply make it casual friendly.

This is how Garand iron sight should more or less look like, really well done picture.

https://www.reddit.com/r/HellLetLoose/comments/dpye7y/with_all_the_fuss_about_the_garand_iron_sights_i/

[JonDonWayne]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5b/34/85/5b3485e5466835b1b723a042a4af7fe1.jpg

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/7bf129ee-f833-4b4c-b627-d5392735b491/d3hkz5k-c5f577a1-d36a-405a-a07e-5509f25a44c2.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJpc3MiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwic3ViIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTpmaWxlLmRvd25sb2FkIl0sIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiIvZi83YmYxMjllZS1mODMzLTRiNGMtYjYyNy1kNTM5MjczNWI0OTEvZDNoa3o1ay1jNWY1NzdhMS1kMzZhLTQwNWEtYTA3ZS01NTA5ZjI1YTQ0YzIuanBnIn1dXX0.Amhm-5ndPEfi-my1J6tfXhu8NIm7dPo5P0EGvUQvDzw

this is how it should look like.... wow thats a damn long url lol

[Cptn_Miller]

SJ HerrVERMZ の投稿を引用：

Since a priority of this game is the historical accuracy of the settings, units and ofc the weapons i really want to discuss the m1 garand in regard to that topic. The M1 Garand had quite the narrow iron sight, limiting the overall field of view. While video games gave the garand an extremely unrealistic wide iron sight (for better situational awareness through a bigger field of view) there is another WW2 shooter with the claim to be historical accurate (*coughing* post scriptum *coughing*).
The iron sight is still a bit wider but ofc closer to the original than the variant in hell let loose which allowes the player to have a slightly wider field of view and thus a slightly better situational awareness without being completely inaccurate regarding the historical original. In regard to these two examples HLL unfortunately fails to deliver on their priority of historical accuracy. A good first step in preventing the M1 Garand to dominate the battlefield might be a more narrow iron sight, forcing the player to be more careful and giving the opponent the chance to react.
Another point which could be useful when it comes to balancing the garand is its recoil. In reality the recoil is much stronger, compensated by the high rate of fire. So the garand wasnt a weapon designed for high range combat.
So there are three points that might be important when it comes to balancing the M1 Garand: increasing the recoil + narrowing the iron sight + a stronger bullet drop on range. That could be a useful combination to balance out the m1 garand while still making it a viable and fun to use weapon in HLL (which is after all still a video game and not reality itself).

You make too much sense, thompson also has a narrow view hooded site, since last update all guns are kinda a mess with some being much better than others...aka the garand/carbine.

[Jedi]

JonDonWayne の投稿を引用：

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5b/34/85/5b3485e5466835b1b723a042a4af7fe1.jpg

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/7bf129ee-f833-4b4c-b627-d5392735b491/d3hkz5k-c5f577a1-d36a-405a-a07e-5509f25a44c2.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJpc3MiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwic3ViIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTpmaWxlLmRvd25sb2FkIl0sIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiIvZi83YmYxMjllZS1mODMzLTRiNGMtYjYyNy1kNTM5MjczNWI0OTEvZDNoa3o1ay1jNWY1NzdhMS1kMzZhLTQwNWEtYTA3ZS01NTA5ZjI1YTQ0YzIuanBnIn1dXX0.Amhm-5ndPEfi-my1J6tfXhu8NIm7dPo5P0EGvUQvDzw

this is how it should look like.... wow thats a damn long url lol

I believe they second look (carbine) and the one I placed of Garand are most accurate and looks good.

https://www.reddit.com/r/HellLetLoose/comments/dpye7y/with_all_the_fuss_about_the_garand_iron_sights_i/