HLL needs inaccuracy

[Martinlegend]

i think HLL needs some more less precision
for example when you ran around 100 meters and still can make precise shots with a rifle without a second of taking a breath

there should be atleast one or two seconds needed for get a proper shot
specially when moving sideways

so you dont get a laser beam Headshot after making a 100+ sprint over open field

open Bolt guns like the Mg42 also needs some decrease of precision when getting fired (like in insurgency sandstorm)
Because of the moving bolt in the gun before the first shot gets fired
(maybe you can increase the precision with a higher level of the class?)

[Roovka]

All this does is further "buff" the defensive play style which is already the primary and strongest way to play.

MGs already have a hard enough time just setting up their gun because of how jank the bipod can be and are generally weak due to being able to be put down extremely easily (Tracers, Sound, Static target) but you want to nerf them even harder by making the gun inaccurate too???

[Martinlegend]

Originally posted by L9Roovka:

All this does is further "buff" the defensive play style which is already the primary and strongest way to play.

MGs already have a hard enough time just setting up their gun because of how jank the bipod can be and are generally weak due to being able to be put down extremely easily (Tracers, Sound, Static target) but you want to nerf them even harder by making the gun inaccurate too???

tracers? were?
the pro of a machine gun is that is has the highes magazine capacity of all guns

the bipod thing can be solved

and no if youre good you cant be put down easily

[Roovka]

Originally posted by Martinlegend:

Originally posted by L9Roovka:

All this does is further "buff" the defensive play style which is already the primary and strongest way to play.

MGs already have a hard enough time just setting up their gun because of how jank the bipod can be and are generally weak due to being able to be put down extremely easily (Tracers, Sound, Static target) but you want to nerf them even harder by making the gun inaccurate too???

tracers? were?
the pro of a machine gun is that is has the highes magazine capacity of all guns

the bipod thing can be solved

and no if youre good you cant be put down easily

MG's fire tracers. You can visually see the bullets flying through the air because they light up.

The pro of an MG is the instant suppression and volume of fire keeping enemy heads down. Having a high capacity is part of the kit but is hardly a defining factor.

The Bipod "thing" has been an issue for several years. It still has not been solved and I don't expect it to any time soon.

Being "good" doesn't make you get shot less when the entire functional parts of the kit are made to make you a glowing billboard of a threat.

All of this to say your suggestion/s would actually just make the game generally worse to play.

[Martinlegend]

Originally posted by L9Roovka:

Originally posted by Martinlegend:

tracers? were?
the pro of a machine gun is that is has the highes magazine capacity of all guns

the bipod thing can be solved

and no if youre good you cant be put down easily

MG's fire tracers. You can visually see the bullets flying through the air because they light up.

The pro of an MG is the instant suppression and volume of fire keeping enemy heads down. Having a high capacity is part of the kit but is hardly a defining factor.

The Bipod "thing" has been an issue for several years. It still has not been solved and I don't expect it to any time soon.

Being "good" doesn't make you get shot less when the entire functional parts of the kit are made to make you a glowing billboard of a threat.

All of this to say your suggestion/s would actually just make the game generally worse to play.

i knowq waht tracers are - but you dont know how the game looked before when the lmgs had these for real now only tanks got these

and now it wqould make the game much slower and less "i killed dude with headshot after i ran 200meters"
it would force the people to walk more and aim properly and not just laser beam guns

[Roovka]

Originally posted by Martinlegend:

Originally posted by L9Roovka:

MG's fire tracers. You can visually see the bullets flying through the air because they light up.

The pro of an MG is the instant suppression and volume of fire keeping enemy heads down. Having a high capacity is part of the kit but is hardly a defining factor.

The Bipod "thing" has been an issue for several years. It still has not been solved and I don't expect it to any time soon.

Being "good" doesn't make you get shot less when the entire functional parts of the kit are made to make you a glowing billboard of a threat.

All of this to say your suggestion/s would actually just make the game generally worse to play.

i knowq waht tracers are - but you dont know how the game looked before when the lmgs had these for real now only tanks got these

and now it wqould make the game much slower and less "i killed dude with headshot after i ran 200meters"
it would force the people to walk more and aim properly and not just laser beam guns

Why do you think the game needs to be slower? Is it not slow enough?

[Martinlegend]

Because running should be a tactical element and no one should be able to run from his own HQ to the last cap without taking a Breath
and it would also give the trucks bigger reason than just the first 5 minutes in a game

[Strontium Dog]

Originally posted by Martinlegend:

Originally posted by L9Roovka:

All this does is further "buff" the defensive play style which is already the primary and strongest way to play.

MGs already have a hard enough time just setting up their gun because of how jank the bipod can be and are generally weak due to being able to be put down extremely easily (Tracers, Sound, Static target) but you want to nerf them even harder by making the gun inaccurate too???

tracers? were?
the pro of a machine gun is that is has the highes magazine capacity of all guns

the bipod thing can be solved

and no if youre good you cant be put down easily

The bipod thing can be solved? lmfao

[Pvt. Parts]

Sounds like OP is sour because he keeps getting sniped. Next thing you know he’ll be the author of tomorrow’s “everyone is cheating” thread.

[Roovka]

Originally posted by datCookie:

Originally posted by L9Roovka:

Why do you think the game needs to be slower? Is it not slow enough?

Believe it or not, HLL used to be a lot slower back in the day. Nowadays, unfortunately, it's more akin to a run and gun Battlefield (has been for quite a while now).

The issue of players being able to run endlessly and still hit perfectly accurate shots has always bothered me and a fair few others at the time when more of us were active in their discord. I had no issues with the weapons themselves being accurate, most of them were just as accurate at distances greater than what the game can normally render.

I always looked to RO2 and even RS2 as a good guide for how gunplay in a game should look and feel (but obviously less dated) and so did the devs when they spoke of their inspiration behind the creation of HLL. Guns need to feel much more weighty in the characters hands and the weapon handling should be affected by things like suppression, stamina, injury and vision. Players should also be rewarded with instant-kill shots to the head and heart areas, with different weapons doing different damage at varied distances to other areas of the body. Being shot in the arm should affect aim until healed and being shot in the leg should slow you down until healed.

HLL has suppression, which is mostly useless given that hitting targets is incredibly easy. There's no stamina of any kind, being injured doesn't affect your ability to aim or move and your vision is never affected by overall injury, only stamina. Players can run forever, aim fast and shoot accurately with relative ease. All that matters is how quickly they can react and how well they can aim, even at a distance.

RO2/RS2 also had good map design to accompany their systems, which allowed for more narrow fields of play whilst still encouraging flanking tactics. Teams would often hold the central ground and do their best to cover the flanks. If the flanks were overrun, they either had to take them back, try harder to hold the centre or retreat to a better position if possible. The maps also allowed for a much better cover system, where MGs or snipers could set up in good nesting positions to cover avenues of attack, without being invulnerable but still difficult to hit. General players could also use all kinds of cover to rest and stabilise their weapons and aim better.

HLL has a very large map, which isn't a bad thing per say as it does allow for vehicles to be used. But such a large map allows for impossible to cover flanks and a lot of teleporting behind enemy lines. The spawn system prevents defending teams from being able to hold a central position from a singular direction (mostly) and are always on edge for teleporting enemies on their flanks or rear. MGs often struggle to set up anywhere due to a buggy bipod system and no player can use cover as it is intended, but rather must always be more exposed than they should be or cannot shoot over the cover at all. Because of this, there's also no ability for a player to rest their weapon and stabilise their aim.


Honestly, there's more I can say, but the systems that HLL has in place do not encourage tactical gameplay, skilled play nor slow gameplay of any kind. The slowness that people think is there is mostly just the distance they need to cover in the map by running around everywhere. HLL could and should have improved a lot more in this regard, but sadly never will. RO2/RS2 had their own problems, for sure, but as far as gunplay goes, I rate them much higher than HLL.

https://imgur.com/a/MGwYiYk

[crackshot]

no. just no.
you encourage d&d dice rolls on a fps.
GTFO.
it does nothing but punish people who can aim at the expense of cry babies who cant so

[[Imp] dorgy]

Originally posted by Martinlegend:

i think HLL needs some more less precision
for example when you ran around 100 meters and still can make precise shots with a rifle without a second of taking a breath

there should be atleast one or two seconds needed for get a proper shot
specially when moving sideways

so you dont get a laser beam Headshot after making a 100+ sprint over open field

open Bolt guns like the Mg42 also needs some decrease of precision when getting fired (like in insurgency sandstorm)
Because of the moving bolt in the gun before the first shot gets fired
(maybe you can increase the precision with a higher level of the class?)

NO.

[mjt]

datCookie summed it up perfectly. If only the gunplay was more more like RO2. Currently, there is virtually no skill expression HLL's gunplay. It's point and click spin to win

[Summerdreams]

Originally posted by mjt:

datCookie summed it up perfectly. If only the gunplay was more more like RO2. Currently, there is virtually no skill expression HLL's gunplay. It's point and click spin to win

So adding a random factor deciding where you aim at would be a skill expression? Thats unlogical by definition because you cannot affect anything which is random. Nowadays the factor deciding whether you hit or not is: your skill in terms of aiming a gun.

Sooo ... wheres the missing skill expression?

Besides that, you slow down games by simply adding more difficult spawn mechanics. Why? Because you get punished with boredom if you play too fast and too careless ... The easier it is to get back to the action the faster the gamepace will be.
E.g., if it took like 2 - 4 minutes to get CLOSE to the action (not directly back into it) i will make sure i wont die within 5 seconds of action.
Take a look at PS - a perfect example. Easy spawn mechanics and even stamina bars + weapon sway. Whats the gameplay like? Everyone drops the rally (outpost) as close to the action as possible in order to zerg until the match is over

[Andy]

Personally, i would consider creating inaccuracy to be conducive to more realistic firefights.
Hell let loose was kinda there even with laser accuracy in the Alpha due to the punitive suppression mechanics.
During the Alpha, the suppression was so severe, that it became a very good tactic to shoot solely for the purpose of suppression. This created longer more drawn out firefights. Even though the larger maps with more live caps meant smaller numbers involved in the fights.
The firefights in the Alpha were the best hell let loose has ever seen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eggWAsYKhEQ
Watch from 5.25 for a good explanation.

Adding inaccuracy also aids that. It becomes a game of tactics, manoeuvre and suppression over quick reaction and pixel hunting
It's, also more accurate, as weapons of the time wouldn't be expected to achieve a level of accuracy greater than 4MOA.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uY_KQeadto4NMSKh402t1DoS5oLyV203/view?pli=1

[Roninman]

Originally posted by L9Roovka:

Originally posted by datCookie:

Believe it or not, HLL used to be a lot slower back in the day. Nowadays, unfortunately, it's more akin to a run and gun Battlefield (has been for quite a while now).

The issue of players being able to run endlessly and still hit perfectly accurate shots has always bothered me and a fair few others at the time when more of us were active in their discord. I had no issues with the weapons themselves being accurate, most of them were just as accurate at distances greater than what the game can normally render.

I always looked to RO2 and even RS2 as a good guide for how gunplay in a game should look and feel (but obviously less dated) and so did the devs when they spoke of their inspiration behind the creation of HLL. Guns need to feel much more weighty in the characters hands and the weapon handling should be affected by things like suppression, stamina, injury and vision. Players should also be rewarded with instant-kill shots to the head and heart areas, with different weapons doing different damage at varied distances to other areas of the body. Being shot in the arm should affect aim until healed and being shot in the leg should slow you down until healed.

HLL has suppression, which is mostly useless given that hitting targets is incredibly easy. There's no stamina of any kind, being injured doesn't affect your ability to aim or move and your vision is never affected by overall injury, only stamina. Players can run forever, aim fast and shoot accurately with relative ease. All that matters is how quickly they can react and how well they can aim, even at a distance.

RO2/RS2 also had good map design to accompany their systems, which allowed for more narrow fields of play whilst still encouraging flanking tactics. Teams would often hold the central ground and do their best to cover the flanks. If the flanks were overrun, they either had to take them back, try harder to hold the centre or retreat to a better position if possible. The maps also allowed for a much better cover system, where MGs or snipers could set up in good nesting positions to cover avenues of attack, without being invulnerable but still difficult to hit. General players could also use all kinds of cover to rest and stabilise their weapons and aim better.

HLL has a very large map, which isn't a bad thing per say as it does allow for vehicles to be used. But such a large map allows for impossible to cover flanks and a lot of teleporting behind enemy lines. The spawn system prevents defending teams from being able to hold a central position from a singular direction (mostly) and are always on edge for teleporting enemies on their flanks or rear. MGs often struggle to set up anywhere due to a buggy bipod system and no player can use cover as it is intended, but rather must always be more exposed than they should be or cannot shoot over the cover at all. Because of this, there's also no ability for a player to rest their weapon and stabilise their aim.


Honestly, there's more I can say, but the systems that HLL has in place do not encourage tactical gameplay, skilled play nor slow gameplay of any kind. The slowness that people think is there is mostly just the distance they need to cover in the map by running around everywhere. HLL could and should have improved a lot more in this regard, but sadly never will. RO2/RS2 had their own problems, for sure, but as far as gunplay goes, I rate them much higher than HLL.

https://imgur.com/a/MGwYiYk

Thats for ignorant tools, he won argument clearly btw