Using an artillery calculator is cheating. Change my mind.

[Birdy]

It's 3rd party software that gives players an advantage that is unfair.

[Birdy]

Originally posted by moron_with_a_gun:

You're trying to argue different things. Using multiple instances to see enemies locations is not a calculator, same with other known cheats.
Calculators are basic maps that you select a point, it spits out coordinates and the mil setting, and you have to manually turn both sides of the gun to the specific settings to hit within 20 meters of the specific point. Compare lining the horizontal marker to a ping and using a mil chart to get within 4 meters and you'll hit the same point.
Console vs PC, I couldn't care less but they could always have a laptop next to them to do the calculator, which again is just a waste of time

If it not an unfair advantage, why does the game no already have that function? If it doesn't give players a leg up, why do they use it?

Back to chess, if I had a pre made map off all possible moves that I was referring too that my opponent didn't have, it wouldn't be fair just because I have to manually move the piece.

[moron_with_a_gun]

The game doesn't need a calculator, thats been my point the whole time. SERIOUSLY, try using one! Within 20 minutes you'll say, "this is dumb" and never use it again. Its not cheating because its unnecessary and less efficient than just firing on markers

[Birdy]

Originally posted by moron_with_a_gun:

The game doesn't need a calculator, thats been my point the whole time. SERIOUSLY, try using one! Within 20 minutes you'll say, "this is dumb" and never use it again. Its not cheating because its unnecessary and less efficient than just firing on markers

If it is so useless, why is it that the players who use it tend to have so many more kills than players who don't? Also, why do people keep using it if it is so useless?

Again, there is a huge advantage to knowing that a target at 223 meters is exactly at 197 mils (made up) as opposed to knowing a range of 220 and 225 meters is between 190 and 180 mills.

Those tables, those exact points, are not provided in the game. Let alone given in way that is easy too look up. Using something else to give you that information on the fly is an advantage that everyone else does not have.

Having a tool that gives you an advantage not afforded to everyone else is cheating.

Regardless of how easy you think it is to get, it doesn't matter, it is still not part of the intended game, and gives a leg up to those who use it. That IS cheating.

If you think it isn't cheating, give me an example in another game/sport in which having access to information or tools not provided to everyone else isn't unfair. It is cheating.

[moron_with_a_gun]

There have been other players who, in this thread, expressed the same notion as myself. This is a link to the arty chart that I use:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1769589606
I can guarantee that I can hit targets faster than someone using a calculator using nothing but that chart.
If that is what you meant by a calculator this whole time, I still disagree that its cheating because anyone can get access to it and over time the player references it less and less. In other words, it is a handicap for players to match higher skilled players.
And no, this is not the same as using a script to always get headshots or see the locations of enemy players!

[Birdy]

Originally posted by SoTu Cookiemonsta:

With that same logic; Discord, TS, Stream services should be a bannable offense because they are third party software that can lend an advantage to those who use such services.

I missed you on replies but...

I never mentioned banning anyone. There is no way for the developer to monitor that stuff,

However, discord is not inherently cheating, it just a alternative way to communicate that is no different in function than what is available in the game already.

However, it can be used too cheat. If you have someone on the opposite team feeding their friends location information, which would be cheating.

This isn't a discussion on what the developers or server owners can police. This is about what should be established as acts that are unfair/cheating that should be accountable under the basics of "don't cheat" as a rule to be followed. I'm debating on if this practice is cheating or not, I believe it is.

If someone is known to be using an unfair advantage, they shouldn't be welcomed in game. Regardless of the ability to enforce that sentiment.

[Birdy]

Originally posted by moron_with_a_gun:

There have been other players who, in this thread, expressed the same notion as myself. This is a link to the arty chart that I use:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1769589606
I can guarantee that I can hit targets faster than someone using a calculator using nothing but that chart.
If that is what you meant by a calculator this whole time, I still disagree that its cheating because anyone can get access to it and over time the player references it less and less. In other words, it is a handicap for players to match higher skilled players.
And no, this is not the same as using a script to always get headshots or see the locations of enemy players!

This is not what I am talking about, I don't have the link to the phone app, but to my understanding, and what I have seen, there is an app that allows you to pick a target on the map and feeds you the EXACT mils to hit that point. That is not the same as using a table like you are showing.

I would maybe argue the table is a bit unfair, but I am not confident I could argue that it is cheating. I am talking about the tools that feed you points as if you were a modern artillery unit that hads access to gps and laser accurate coordinates.

I could care less if someone translated the mils down to the meter for reference. I care that someone can say I want to hit target (X,Y) and a script saying 132 on compass and 138 mils

[moron_with_a_gun]

Even the calculator that tells you where to aim requires a lot more effort, you have to turn both positions and the gun itself is no more accurate than just aiming without it. Not to mention, there's no guarantee that the location you picked using an app is the actual location that you want to hit.

[Birdy]

Originally posted by moron_with_a_gun:

Even the calculator that tells you where to aim requires a lot more effort, you have to turn both positions and the gun itself is no more accurate than just aiming without it. Not to mention, there's no guarantee that the location you picked using an app is the actual location that you want to hit.

If it requires more effort and isn't as good, why do people use it, and why is it that people who use it tend to do better than someone of the same skill level who doesn't?

[Birdy]

Originally posted by datCookie:

I hate the use of an artillery calculator, but your logic must be applied to all 3rd party programs that players can use, or none at all (outside of actual cheats).

By your logic, youd be banning the use of any outside communication software like discord or even steam voice chat and team speak.

This really isnt practical at all.

I just addressed this a few comments ago, I will quote myself.

I never mentioned banning anyone. There is no way for the developer to monitor that stuff,

However, discord is not inherently cheating, it just a alternative way to communicate that is no different in function than what is available in the game already.

However, it can be used too cheat. If you have someone on the opposite team feeding their friends location information, which would be cheating.

This isn't a discussion on what the developers or server owners can police. This is about what should be established as acts that are unfair/cheating that should be accountable under the basics of "don't cheat" as a rule to be followed. I'm debating on if this practice is cheating or not, I believe it is.

If someone is known to be using an unfair advantage, they shouldn't be welcomed in game. Regardless of the ability to enforce that sentiment.

[moron_with_a_gun]

I would assume that anyone who uses it doesnt realize that they only need to ping the map to know exactly where to point. I could see using it to rough into a point, but still unnecessary.
In other words, just because someone is good at arty doesn't mean that they are using that tool. There are plenty of player who do just fine without it.
I cannot stress enough that if you used the tool, you would understand what i am saying and know why it isnt what you think it is.

[Ivar the Boneless]

You must love getting team killed by the turd burglars that don't know how to use arty. Idk about someone integrating it so that its an overlay, that would be shady to me, but if I'm feeling particularly lazy I'll just pull up the funletloose site on my phone and plug in the numbers. In the end it doesn't matter what your opinion is, even if the developer cared enough to say it is cheating, good luck catching people. Here's some advice, stop caring what other people are doing so much and just play the game. Maybe take that energy and yell at the developers about the MANY bugs that riddle the game, or the wildly inaccurate and depressing tank mechanics.

[Birdy]

Originally posted by moron_with_a_gun:

I would assume that anyone who uses it doesnt realize that they only need to ping the map to know exactly where to point. I could see using it to rough into a point, but still unnecessary.
In other words, just because someone is good at arty doesn't mean that they are using that tool. There are plenty of player who do just fine without it.
I cannot stress enough that if you used the tool, you would understand what i am saying and know why it isnt what you think it is.

And I can't stress enough that the tool you have linked, and are continuing to use as your example is not what I am talking about. Nor does your belief how a tool you have not used either is used by others, or how effective it is.

Again. If it is not useful or good, why do people use it, and why do the people who use it tend to do better than those who do not?

I'm not talking about competent players, I mean the every-man

Hell, a good player is better than the average, but so does a cheater, even if their cheats don't make them better than the best.

[Birdy]

Originally posted by Ragnar Ragnarsson:

You must love getting team killed by the turd burglars that don't know how to use arty. Idk about someone integrating it so that its an overlay, that would be shady to me, but if I'm feeling particularly lazy I'll just pull up the funletloose site on my phone and plug in the numbers. In the end it doesn't matter what your opinion is, even if the developer cared enough to say it is cheating, good luck catching people. Here's some advice, stop caring what other people are doing so much and just play the game. Maybe take that energy and yell at the developers about the MANY bugs that riddle the game, or the wildly inaccurate and depressing tank mechanics.

I will repeat what I have already said, this is not about what the developers or server owners can police or ban. I stating that using these tools is cheating, and am asking for people who dissagree with me to convince me otherwise.

Do you, or do you not believe that someone using outside software to gain an advantage that would otherwise not be available to others in the game is an act of cheating?

Yes or no.

[moron_with_a_gun]

This is probably what you're talking about:
https://www.hell-let-loose-calculator.com/#/
If not, what?

[Birdy]

Originally posted by moron_with_a_gun:

This is probably what you're talking about:
https://www.hell-let-loose-calculator.com/#/
If not, what?

I was referring to a phone app, that may or may no have a desktop version. However, this has the exact functionality that I am talking about.

I would argue that using that app is cheating. I don't think it not being directly integrated into the game changes that either.

You linked a table earlier that was just mils to meters but, being more specific than whats in the game. That still takes the operator some skill or challenge to aim, even if it is now much less skill. The app your linking now, is not the same, in my opinion. It's the difference between two math problems that are not equally as hard, while the later is just the answer given.