Using an artillery calculator is cheating. Change my mind.

[Birdy]

It's 3rd party software that gives players an advantage that is unfair.

[kingsbishop7]

All forces in WW2 had Range Tables which were Pre-Calculated into Mills. Therefor they didn't even need the "3rd party software". I don't think we can say they were cheating back then.

[Lerxst]

Originally posted by Stir Fry:

It's 3rd party software that gives players an advantage that is unfair.

Your mind is already made up.

[Birdy]

Originally posted by kingsbishop7:

All forces in WW2 had Range Tables which were Pre-Calculated into Mills. Therefor they didn't even need the "3rd party software". I don't think we can say they were cheating back then.

Specific targets had specific calculated setting for the guns to hit, which were known by the crews. If a target outside those predetermined coordinates was designated, that location data was given to the artillery commander by a forward observer (that had estimated data based on observation.) That semi inaccurate data was then fed to an artillery commander who used a combination of pre established tables, and calculations that were done by an analog calculating device to determine the the correct coordinates. Then they would send fire, and hope is right.

Which is not the same as having ever square meter of an area mapped with easily accessible coordinates. let alone having those coordinates being fed to you by a computer system with the processing power that is equal to 100's of thousands, if not, millions of times faster than any human. So that argument that they had tables is stupid.

Lets compare it to something else.

If I am an AT rocketeer, and I have a program that gives me the exact elevation I need to shoot the rocket to hit a target, that would be cheating. I defy you to say otherwise.

The real crux of this is, people are using tools not provided by the game to gain an advantage.

I couldn't play a competitive chess match using a computer to tell me my moves and say "well, every move of chess is already mapped, so why not have this tool to make my life easier?"

If you use something outside what is provided within the confounds of the game you are playing, you are cheating.

[Birdy]

Originally posted by Lerxst:

Originally posted by Stir Fry:

It's 3rd party software that gives players an advantage that is unfair.

Your mind is already made up.

Just like my mind is made up that using software to improve my accuracy would be cheating. Do you have some kind of an argument against what I am saying, or are you just here to self felicitate yourself in the hopes the other people with no argument will like you?

[kingsbishop7]

I am just going to tell you the reality of the situation in WW2 with Arty. All forces had weapon range tables available per weapon types. Arty range tables were pre-calculate to well with in the Blast Zone. These tables were incorporated into the weapons training of the crews. Most of the weapons crews memorized these tables by heart since there lives depended on it.

If you take a look at the Flak88 and other duel purpose guns Arty becomes even more Deadly than HLL. Again these guys all knew the range tables by heart or learned them dam quick.

[Kornstalx]

Originally posted by Stir Fry:

It's 3rd party software that gives players an advantage that is unfair.

I use the programmable G-keys on my Logitech keyboard to auto-swap places and auto-load shells when running artillery solo. Sorry, not sorry.

[Cookiemonsta]

With that same logic; Discord, TS, Stream services should be a bannable offense because they are third party software that can lend an advantage to those who use such services.

[Birdy]

Originally posted by kingsbishop7:

I am just going to tell you the reality of the situation in WW2 with Arty. All forces had weapon range tables available per weapon types. Arty table range tables were pre-calculate to well with in the Blast Zone. These tables were incorporated into the weapons training of the crews. Most of the weapons crews memorized these tables by heart since there lives depended on it.

And they also had a forward observer that was able to relay to them a pin point accurate target right?

But if you want to talk about reality, this is a video game, right?

Answer this.

If anyone uses tools, such as software, that are not provided by the game, which gives someone an advantage over other players that are solely playing the game as is, they are cheating, are they not?

Give me a scenario outside of this specific issue in which that description of activity is not cheating.

Because jut telling me how WWII was, has nothing to do with if someone is cheating in video game.

[moron_with_a_gun]

I remember using a calculator before map pings where a thing. Honestly they are a lot more work than just lining up to a ping or marker and checking a range chart.
So no, not cheating, but hilariously less efficient than using in game tools

[Kornstalx]

Originally posted by Stir Fry:

Give me a scenario outside of this specific issue in which that description of activity is not cheating.

ADA/disabilities software. Tobii eye tracking for people that can't use their hands very well.

All of these are 3rd party synthetic input software. The game cannot tell the difference between Bob Ninefingers using a special keyboard to have one key send multiple bindings or click the mouse, and Robert NoobPwner using similar software to move the mouse vertical against recoil.

This is an uphill battle fought for 20 years. Windows can flag keystrokes as synthetic, and the games can see this, but you can't disable them or you eliminate Bob and all the legitimate users.

[kingsbishop7]

I suggest you review the American Technic of "Time on Target" used with Arty during WW2. The Germans thought it was cheating too.

[Birdy]

Originally posted by Kornstalx:

Originally posted by Stir Fry:

It's 3rd party software that gives players an advantage that is unfair.

I use the programmable G-keys on my Logitech keyboard to auto-swap places and auto-load shells when running artillery solo. Sorry, not sorry.

That is legitimately about as best an argument that can be given. Thing is, that is a hardware advantage that no reasonable person can argue against. You can't define what keyboard or mouse someone has, only that they function in a specific way. Move mouse right, curser moves right.

For example, I can, and do, change my DPS on the fly through my mouse. Sensitivity can be changed by anyone at any time through settings. I have a mouse that allows me to change those setting everyone has access too on the fly. What I can't program my mouse to do, is automatically, or for this argument, guide me where to shoot to hit a target.

[Kornstalx]

Originally posted by Stir Fry:

Thing is, that is a hardware advantage that no reasonable person can argue against.

No, it's not. It's a script. The keyboard is saving your custom bindings as an editable script, and if you know some basic scripting you can embellish it. You can make it do things it's not supposed to do; things a layman can't do by just clicking the program button on his keyboard.

It's not hardware, it's software, and it's absolutely zero difference on the OS level as something like AHK. Don't get me started on AHK... the sky is the limit, if you understand basic C+ you can automate anything.

Thing is all of this is software and seen as driver level input to the OS, and the game. It's flagged as synthetic, but the game won't blacklist this or it risks ADA issues with legitimate usage of synthetic input on a PC.

[Birdy]

Originally posted by kingsbishop7:

I suggest you review the American Technic of "Time on Target" used with Arty during WW2. The Germans thought it was cheating too.

And I think you are ignoring the practicality of what is going on in order to keep pushing a historical narrative that legitimately doesn't apply here.
Because, again, this is a video game, not real life, and the fact it, someone is using tools not provided to other players to gain an advantage.

Can you please comment on that? Do you think players, in a video game, regardless of historical context (or whatever,) are not cheating if they use software that is not part of the game to gain an advantage?

[moron_with_a_gun]

Have you ever looked up the arty calculators? They're not special, available to anyone who can do a google search, and not an advantage. Try it out, you'll see