Pros and Cons of "Squad Seeding"

[[BR1] 》Billynair]

I have been playing for a few weeks and noticed that:
1) people hate to play Commander
2) people try to avoid playing Squad Lead
3) Everyone rushes to get sniper

So, you get into a game with 50 players on your side, 4 are in recon, 2 are solo tanking and you have 2 full squads with the rest of the players waiting for someone else to pick SL so they can play their desired roll (MG, AT, etc)

Yes, it is good to have SL, I absolutely agree, but, I rarely see a squad without a SL for more than a few minutes, eventually someone takes it, but, in the first few minutes of the game, I feel that the SL roll is way less important than getting people on the field, especially on "Offensive" maps.

80% of the players sit in the Lobby waiting for someone else to make a squad so they can play AT or MG, so why not start squads and get people going?

Do you think its better to wait for people to make squads so people will join the fight or "Seed Squads" even if it means they will be without a SL for a few rounds?

[kingsbishop7]

People will step up to be a squad leader after they get tired of not have and OP around.

[[BR1] 》Billynair]

this is what I have noticed too. But I got cussed out hard for seeding a squad a few days ago, which is why I am asking. I dont know why this guy was so angry, especially since he was one of the guys who waited for me to make a squad so he could play MG rather than him going SL first.

[Rwibby]

I know we all want to live in a world where every single player in the game is using a mic, but that is just not the case. I think games like HLL should be more accessible and provide tools for squad-based communication other than the usual pinging mechanics.

This said, squad leaders are usually pressured to pave the way into battle and most players completely ignore the chat feed, so unless you have a mic use the pinging system, which is extremely inefficient to define squad tactics, there is no other way to communicate and lead your squad unless you have a working mic (or you're able to speak at all).

I'd love to see a system, similar to the classic BF games, where you were able to ping enemy locations, but also send generic messages to your squad like "need ammo", "need healing", "need a ride", "follow me" or "take cover".

I'd also love to e able to draw on the map tactics and stuff.

On top of that, I'd love to see a little more balance on XP rewards for squad leaders. At the moment the rewarding system is just too flat with barely any differences for commanders, squad leaders and other types of contributors to over tactics.

All of the above seem to me like huge incentives for people to start getting more into squad leading.

One last point: after 5 min of waiting in the lobby, I'd automatically apply for a random squad with available spaces (pending approval of that squad leader), to prevent people from staying in the lobby too long.

[[BLK] Telu]

Less popular class : Commander, SL, Support. I'm tired to play those class. I would love to see people playing them. Them, i will be able to level up my other class. :P

For mic, i will not complain. It's the first game where i see people really using communication & server who put rules to force people to use mic. When i see people saying than RO2 & RS2 had communication, i want to laugh, since i never saw anyone using his mic or trying to play as a team. (Maybe i was not on the good server, idk, but i never see anyone talking. And i also saw a lot of troll)

[TWB*Clell_Miller]

You catch on fast. But you know, the game is purposefully structured to compel the players to adapt to a certain structure. And some have to be dragged kicking and screaming into compliance. It's like any other sport or game; it's not a free for all. And non-compliance is made difficult by design. And non compliance is rewarded will losing. You don't bring a demolition derby attitude to a formula 1 race.

[Fang [DK]]

the problem is not that non wanna play SL or Commander. the REAL problem is that people lack nessery basic "Brain Power" to play the game.
reason i stopped played SL and Commander is, im so TIRED of people being so BLOODY Stupid. that they cant think for themself or dont even CARE about what the SL/Commander say... ask someone to defend and what they do - go play RAMBO. tell people to build nodes, and what do they do - NOTHING......Commander is being blame for each time you lose. even thought he is the one doing all the work, building garrisons and other stuff. he gets blamed for loss. cause people are to stupid to defend/build garrisons.
have i missed anything?

i think i lost alot of brain cells, after starting to play this game.

[[BLK] Telu]

Yes but those behavior happen because the game is broken. And wrongly designed. For the rest, players are just lazy, they just want to shoot people. Dev ask them to work and most of the work looks like punishment. And it's a problem. It's a game, stuff need to be fun to do. When you ask for support or SL, nobody want because you need to play a walking simulator for 90 minutes. Nobody want to waste 90 minutes of their time in doing fedex.

Class like AT, assault, riffleman, everyone jump on it so much than it's hard to find a slot free to play those class. Beginner play riffleman & medic because they are afraid to not be able to handle a specialist role like engi or AT. They think than it's serious business and are afraid to fail or struggle. They are wrong but they don't know about it.

If SL & support were made to attract people, then, the game will start to be played as intended.

[GRU-Vy]

I avoid being squad leader and i generally will join squads who have a squad leader that comminicates. I can squad lead and i communicate well however im sick of people not listening.

For example your squad is placed on point defence by commander. But 2-3 of the people in your squad want to get kills so they run off to the fight and die most of the time anyway. It happens just as often in squads im not leading (like the other day AT guy from squad im in jumps into a transport truck being driven by a solo squad lead from another squad at match start).

The game needs to force a style of play. Either it goes more sim route and keep current systems in place or make it more arcadey where its a bfv clone and scrap most of the features. Currently as it stands, serious players are having to deal with bs and cant get stuff done.

[S. Hawk]

So I had only played three matches and we were starting a new one but only one squad was available and it was full. I waited for a minute then decided to make a new squad which made me SL and the rest of the squad filled in seconds. I assume that's what people are talking about when they say no one wants to be SL?

So I joined the match and had no idea what I was saying. The other SL and command were trying to tell me to do stuff, I had no idea what they were talking about and said so, so the commander asked me to be a RM which is what I wanted to do in the first place. I find it a bit annoying to make someone have to be a SL just so there are enough squads to be in but no one wants to be one.

[Ж | wildcard.NS]

SL should be an additional "role" tacked on to one of the other roles. This, I think, would alleviate a lot of the issues with people not wanting to SL. I think it's due to players wanting specific utility and/or XP (the AT grind is particularly painful.)

Imagine: No open squads available, so you create one. You are designated SL, and you have the pocket watch. Now you pick a role and loadout to go with it.

This has the added benefit of potentially reducing the number of SMGs on the battlefield. Personally, I find the plethora of small automatic weapons ahistorical and annoying.

[[BR1] 》Billynair]

nice! i really like this idea! you get to play YOUR desired roll, but, you get the option to build OPs and Garrys.

Not only would this help those who wanted to grind out their [Anti Tank] roll, but, it would encourage people to be SL, since YOU get to decide what you want to be first.

BUT... then the flip side

you will have 48 different squads...

[EDIT]
Simple fix:
limit the number of squads to 8 (or whatever)

[Ж | wildcard.NS]

Originally posted by BillyNair:

nice! i really like this idea! you get to play YOUR desired roll, but, you get the option to build OPs and Garrys.

Not only would this help those who wanted to grind out their [Anti Tank] roll, but, it would encourage people to be SL, since YOU get to decide what you want to be first.

BUT... then the flip side

you will have 48 different squads...

There is already a limit to garris. It would be trivial to limit the number of OPs.
There is already a limit to recon/armor squads. It would be trivial to limit the numbef of intantry squads.

Please feel free to give feedback on the idea, but understand that you're going to pick apart a lof of things I left out for brevity. This isn't really my idea, there is a game out there that uses this system to good effect.

If it was as simple as "I can place my own spawn so I'm gonna be SL," we wouldn't have this problem to start with.

[GRU-Vy]

Originally posted by wildcard NPA:

SL should be an additional "role" tacked on to one of the other roles. This, I think, would alleviate a lot of the issues with people not wanting to SL. I think it's due to players wanting specific utility and/or XP (the AT grind is particularly painful.)

Imagine: No open squads available, so you create one. You are designated SL, and you have the pocket watch. Now you pick a role and loadout to go with it.

This has the added benefit of potentially reducing the number of SMGs on the battlefield. Personally, I find the plethora of small automatic weapons ahistorical and annoying.

Or they could allow people to spawn in who are not part of a squad but limited to rifleman kit. When i play squad (the game) and all the squads are full i just spawn in and attach myself to an existing squad. You can still fight, supply ammo and help build.

[[BLK] Telu]

Great ideas today ! Good job, people. :)

I just don't like the idea to get people stuck with rifleman. It's a feature than i don't like in Squad, PS & BTW. In those game, i never saw something else than the "noob" riffle. It's pretty annoying, it doesn't make you want to continue playing.

[Strontium Dog]

Originally posted by wildcard:

SL should be an additional "role" tacked on to one of the other roles. This, I think, would alleviate a lot of the issues with people not wanting to SL. I think it's due to players wanting specific utility and/or XP (the AT grind is particularly painful.)

Imagine: No open squads available, so you create one. You are designated SL, and you have the pocket watch. Now you pick a role and loadout to go with it.

This has the added benefit of potentially reducing the number of SMGs on the battlefield. Personally, I find the plethora of small automatic weapons ahistorical and annoying.

The "tacked on" is what RS2 did and it was great. I would like to try different weapons but I only play as sl and being limited to just 2 weapons sucks.