Designated Marksman Loadout for Rifleman

[Chromakey]

Rifleman should have a loadout at lvl 6 with a Kar98k with the 1.5x ZF41 scope, a lvl 9 loadout with the G43 with the ZF4 scope and the M1903xx with the 2.2x scope on the U.S. side, limited to 1 per squad. Right now there's less scoped rifles than Tanks on the Battlefield, which doesn't make much sense. The regular Sniper Class should be upgraded with better camouflage loadout options.

[Chromakey]

Originally posted by datCookie:

No. The last thing this game needs is more players running around with scopes.

Well, that's what happened in ww2. What didn't happen was spraying and praying with a Thompson and headshotting people at range. We need less of that, and more realistic combat at range.

[Tom]

even squad knows that having more than two snipers is aids

[Chromakey]

Originally posted by datCookie:

Originally posted by Chromakey:

Well, that's what happened in ww2. What didn't happen was spraying and praying with a Thompson and headshotting people at range. We need less of that, and more realistic combat at range.

It's called "balance". Scopes, specifically longer range ones, are OP in every shooter like this. It's important to prioritise gameplay first. 2 snipers per team is more than enough and the game doesn't need any more scoped weapons for players to abuse.

Balance is exactly the point, right now SMGs are OP, suppressing the enemy, having far too little recoil, allowing to spray and pray kill at ranges where you wouldn't hit a barn door. A scope is only an advantage at 120m+ in the game, below that it is a severe disadvantage. From a viewpoint of historical accuracy, you shouldn't be able to do anything with a SMG at range, just like you can't do much with a bolt action rifle in close quarter combat.

And to your point, the G43 doesn't have the same muzzle velocity, precision and scope magnification as the kar98k sniper variant, that's why it should be the rifle on the german side. Because it was actually widely used, even designed for use with a scope.

[Chromakey]

Originally posted by datCookie:

Originally posted by Chromakey:

Balance is exactly the point, right now SMGs are OP, suppressing the enemy, having far too little recoil, allowing to spray and pray kill at ranges where you wouldn't hit a barn door. A scope is only an advantage at 120m+ in the game, below that it is a severe disadvantage. From a viewpoint of historical accuracy, you shouldn't be able to do anything with a SMG at range, just like you can't do much with a bolt action rifle in close quarter combat.

That's more an issue with how poorly gunplay is designed here, coupled with the sheer abundance of automatic weapons for both forces. It'd make far more sense to deal with those issues directly rather than adding something like extra scopes to the mix, which will cause more issues with balance down the line.

It's not so much the abundance of automatic weapons, just that they perform far too good in full auto at range. And again, having less marksmen with scopes than tanks on the battlefield is just ridiculous.

[Chromakey]

Originally posted by datCookie:

Originally posted by Chromakey:

It's not so much the abundance of automatic weapons, just that they perform far too good in full auto at range. And again, having less marksmen with scopes than tanks on the battlefield is just ridiculous.

There is a clear issue in regards to the abundance of automatic weapons in the loadouts. Max himself has (finally) admitted this to be the case. Again though, gunplay is the main issue, not the lack of scopes.

It doesn't matter whether scoped weapons were more common than tanks on the battlefield (they weren't), it's a matter of gameplay and balance. The Sniper class will be the only role that will have access to scoped weapon variants.

Oh cmon, don't be ridiculous. A short research shows over 50.000 G43 sniper variants, and 132.000 k98k sniper variants were produced by Germany. I'm too lazy to research the tank numbers, but i'm gonna take a wild guess that there weren't 180.000 tanks used by germany. At least now we have established, that you don't know what you're talking about. Cute, how you think you can issue definitive statements on the devs behalf.

[Chromakey]

Originally posted by datCookie:

Originally posted by Chromakey:

Oh cmon, don't be ridiculous. A short research shows over 50.000 G43 sniper variants, and 132.000 k98k sniper variants were produced by Germany. I'm too lazy to research the tank numbers, but i'm gonna take a wild guess that there weren't 180.000 tanks used by germany. At least now we have established, that you don't know what you're talking about. Cute, how you think you can issue definitive statements on the devs behalf.

As I said, it doesn't matter whether more sniper variants were made than there were armoured vehicles. From a gameplay perspective, it would ruin balance to allow more classes to have access to scoped weaponry. I'm not making any statements on their behalf, merely repeating statements that they've already made.

Well, too bad that you have already disqualified yourself, with that stupid statement that there were more tanks on the battlefield than scoped rifles. Maybe you are suffering from confirmation bias, just because you don't want it to be true doesn't make it so. The G43 was specifically designed to counter the sniper threat on the eastern front. All sides would have the classes. They would have to engage each other. The Sniper class should retain the best optics (8x on the german side) and should get the best camo, just like it was (and still is). The designated marksman should have a 4x scope, which would be and advantage at range, but a disadvantage at distances below 120m.

[Chromakey]

I'll just ignore for a second, that you can't be taken seriously because of your previous statements, and answer to that: At 75 m you can see your opponent clearly in the game. You don't need a scope, that limits your field of view, and makes target reaquisition after firing and absorbing the recoil actually more difficult. A G43 sniper variant would not be the overpowered thing you make it out to be. It's not as precise, and it doesn't even kill with one shot to the body at 200m. It would fill a role, and suffer in other aspects of the game.

[Chromakey]

You said that there were more tanks on the battlefield than soldiers with scoped rifles in ww2. My mind is still blown, how absolutely stupid somebody has to be, to believe that. And yeah, i would need a source on that developers statement.

The limited visibility and rendering range does skew the game to the weapons who would have a shorter range. I don't think that's a solvable problem with todays graphics technology

[Chromakey]

Originally posted by datCookie:

Originally posted by Chromakey:

You said that there were more tanks on the battlefield than soldiers with scoped rifles in ww2. My mind is still blown, how absolutely stupid somebody has to be, to believe that.

So now you're just ignoring my statement that the developers have already confirmed that snipers will be the only class getting extra snipers (if any) and instead just want to poke fun at something I got wrong?

Sounds like a good plan...

No, i'm deducing, judging from your previous statement, that you just make things up as you go. Please reflect again on how you came to that idea. If that happened to me, i'd be worried.

[Chromakey]

Well, it's a guide from over two years ago. The comparisons with other games don't hold water for me. I'd equip the M1903A4 with the inferior 2.2x scope, and the G43 with the ZF4 scope, to have a significant distinction to the Sniper Class. Btw, the americans also developed a sniper variant of the M1 Garand, but it wasn't completed in time for fielding it in ww2, it was then widely used in Korea.

[Medryn]

Do some research, a simple google search will yield the results to tell you that snipers were incredibly rare, and the only nation to take them seriously were the Soviet Union

[Chromakey]

Originally posted by Lord Rahl:

Do some research, a simple google search will yield the results to tell you that snipers were incredibly rare, and the only nation to take them seriously were the Soviet Union

I did, Germany produced over 180.000 Sniper Variants of the G43 and Kar98k. That's as many sniper rifles as the whole German Army by todays standards. Panzer V (Panther) were the most produced in WW II, with about 6000 units.

[Jedster]

Originally posted by Chromakey:

Originally posted by Lord Rahl:

Do some research, a simple google search will yield the results to tell you that snipers were incredibly rare, and the only nation to take them seriously were the Soviet Union

I did, Germany produced over 180.000 Sniper Variants of the G43 and Kar98k. That's as many sniper rifles as the whole German Army by todays standards. Panzer V (Panther) were the most produced in WW II, with about 6000 units.

How are you still on this BS? Nobody cares about your numbers of rifles and tanks, this is a game, not an accurate representation of the real thing. Your idea is dumb, get over it, it ain't happening.

[Chromakey]

Originally posted by JEDSTER:

Originally posted by Chromakey:

I did, Germany produced over 180.000 Sniper Variants of the G43 and Kar98k. That's as many sniper rifles as the whole German Army by todays standards. Panzer V (Panther) were the most produced in WW II, with about 6000 units.

How are you still on this BS? Nobody cares about your numbers of rifles and tanks, this is a game, not an accurate representation of the real thing. Your idea is dumb, get over it, it ain't happening.

I understand that some people get triggered by the mere mention of the term "sniper", that's fine. You can just admit it. But don't give me bs like there were more tanks on the battlefield than scoped rifles. Just say, you don't want more realism, you want to run around with your smg and spray and pray. If that's your opinion, that's totally valid. Just acknowledge, that you don't actually care about realism or historical accuracy.

[Valentine Michael Smith]

why is it even called sniper if it doesn't snip