How to kill shermans from front as panther or tiger

[softwarebot]

I feel like I get absolutely demolished as axis vehicles, how to I take on a sherman from the front?

[Beans]

Publicado originalmente por Valentine Michael Smith:

the game was overall more enjoyable as a tanker before the jumbos were introduced. Taking on a tiger and winning was a challenge. Now it's just derp towards it with your 76 and win 99% of the time.

Exactly. I remember back in the beta it was 2 Panther vs. 5-6 Sherman’s. The balance was immaculate, as the US had the numbers but worse armor and cannon while the Germans had a couple but good armor and cannons. This created a struggle for the US like irl and in the beta I remember the tactics and strategy people used to defeat the panthers, they were great. When the Tiger was introduced these strategy’s returned as people in their regular Sherman’s had to flank them, stuff like it doesn’t happen now a days. Now ,like you said, Jumbos just bomb rush Tigers and are careless cause of how the Jumbos are. How it all went from good to garbage is just abysmal and sad.

[softwarebot]

Publicado originalmente por Beans:

Publicado originalmente por Valentine Michael Smith:

the game was overall more enjoyable as a tanker before the jumbos were introduced. Taking on a tiger and winning was a challenge. Now it's just derp towards it with your 76 and win 99% of the time.

Exactly. I remember back in the beta it was 2 Panther vs. 5-6 Sherman’s. The balance was immaculate, as the US had the numbers but worse armor and cannon while the Germans had a couple but good armor and cannons. This created a struggle for the US like irl and in the beta I remember the tactics and strategy people used to defeat the panthers, they were great. When the Tiger was introduced these strategy’s returned as people in their regular Sherman’s had to flank them, stuff like it doesn’t happen now a days. Now ,like you said, Jumbos just bomb rush Tigers and are careless cause of how the Jumbos are. How it all went from good to garbage is just abysmal and sad.

This really is it

[softwarebot]

Honestly the tank meta flow, penetration physics for tanks AND fences need reworking.

[softwarebot]

Well the slit shot didn't work, also shooting the front track doesnt once shot either

[Kersch]

The American Jumbo is unrealistcally OP and the German tanks are unrealistically weak. I agree that the balance before the introduction of these Jumbos was much better, with the Allied team being more reliant on numerical superiority and fire and maneuver. As I've stated before I wish the developers had given us the standard sherman for Allies and the Panzer IV for Germany. Hopefully the armor rework fixes alot of these issues and they introduce the more prevalent vehicles from the world war 2 battlefield, until then the armor game play will continue to be one sided in favor of Allies and quite buggy and annoying for all.

[Kersch]

Publicado originalmente por Beans:

Publicado originalmente por Valentine Michael Smith:

the game was overall more enjoyable as a tanker before the jumbos were introduced. Taking on a tiger and winning was a challenge. Now it's just derp towards it with your 76 and win 99% of the time.

Exactly. I remember back in the beta it was 2 Panther vs. 5-6 Sherman’s. The balance was immaculate, as the US had the numbers but worse armor and cannon while the Germans had a couple but good armor and cannons. This created a struggle for the US like irl and in the beta I remember the tactics and strategy people used to defeat the panthers, they were great. When the Tiger was introduced these strategy’s returned as people in their regular Sherman’s had to flank them, stuff like it doesn’t happen now a days. Now ,like you said, Jumbos just bomb rush Tigers and are careless cause of how the Jumbos are. How it all went from good to garbage is just abysmal and sad.

Exactly.

[huma474]

Publicado originalmente por Kersch:

Publicado originalmente por Beans:

Exactly. I remember back in the beta it was 2 Panther vs. 5-6 Sherman’s. The balance was immaculate, as the US had the numbers but worse armor and cannon while the Germans had a couple but good armor and cannons. This created a struggle for the US like irl and in the beta I remember the tactics and strategy people used to defeat the panthers, they were great. When the Tiger was introduced these strategy’s returned as people in their regular Sherman’s had to flank them, stuff like it doesn’t happen now a days. Now ,like you said, Jumbos just bomb rush Tigers and are careless cause of how the Jumbos are. How it all went from good to garbage is just abysmal and sad.

Exactly.

No, it wasn't great during the old days. But that was mostly because the same EXACT issues that exist now existed then - the armor models are horrible and have not been improved. If you knew where to shoot a panther you could 1 shot it. When nobody knew where the failures of coding that the developers had provided were located it was a better time, however there's only so long you can rely on people not learning where the bugs are. The devs say they're going to attempt to address bugs that have been present in this game for over a year and half soon, but its not likely to work. We're gonna see a massive mess of new bugs in the game ( and if tradition holds we're going to see them dumped on everyone without testing because QA is too hard and Public Tests are strange things that only successful games do) when they release the next update as they have just recently started saying armor will be updated in the next update.

If they devs want us to have any faith in their words they need to make this next update absolutely perfect. otherwise we're going to just be in for another round of half truths and whole lies to cover for failures in design and testing.

[Kersch]

Publicado originalmente por huma474:

Publicado originalmente por Kersch:

Exactly.

No, it wasn't great during the old days. But that was mostly because the same EXACT issues that exist now existed then - the armor models are horrible and have not been improved. If you knew where to shoot a panther you could 1 shot it. When nobody knew where the failures of coding that the developers had provided were located it was a better time, however there's only so long you can rely on people not learning where the bugs are. The devs say they're going to attempt to address bugs that have been present in this game for over a year and half soon, but its not likely to work. We're gonna see a massive mess of new bugs in the game ( and if tradition holds we're going to see them dumped on everyone without testing because QA is too hard and Public Tests are strange things that only successful games do) when they release the next update as they have just recently started saying armor will be updated in the next update.

If they devs want us to have any faith in their words they need to make this next update absolutely perfect. otherwise we're going to just be in for another round of half truths and whole lies to cover for failures in design and testing.

I agree with you, I just think that the balance between factions was better. The armor element of the game undoubtedly needs an extreme amount of work and attention.

[Psycha]

Publicado originalmente por Cptn_Miller:

panther 75 mm KwK 42 L/70 gun has more penetration power due to higher velocity compared to tiger 88 mm KwK 36 L/56, the 88 has projectile mass on its side, bigger shell, less pen.

shooting a driver slit is not / should not be a glitch, it is where you would aim, same with lower plate, or turret ring when attacking a jumbo frontally, current armor models are weak compared to ro1 or war thunder, ro1+ mods had some of best tank maps ever.

jumbo's were extremely rare, tigers and panthers were not.

can't wait for the King Tiger w/ 88 mm KwK 43 L/71

next patch supposed to be armor update, we'll see.

why a tank blows up from 1 frontal shot in the tracks is beyond comprehension, it just loses a track.

Except they have stated in the beginning there is no armor values and special points to hit. The tanks are health based. Unlike Squad and Post Scriptum with vehicle weak points this game doesnt have this yet.

So its unclear why tanks 1 shot eachother atm with these weird shots and angles when the game doesnt have ballistic values for tank shells.. Just flat damage.

[huma474]

Publicado originalmente por Kersch:

Publicado originalmente por huma474:

No, it wasn't great during the old days. But that was mostly because the same EXACT issues that exist now existed then - the armor models are horrible and have not been improved. If you knew where to shoot a panther you could 1 shot it. When nobody knew where the failures of coding that the developers had provided were located it was a better time, however there's only so long you can rely on people not learning where the bugs are. The devs say they're going to attempt to address bugs that have been present in this game for over a year and half soon, but its not likely to work. We're gonna see a massive mess of new bugs in the game ( and if tradition holds we're going to see them dumped on everyone without testing because QA is too hard and Public Tests are strange things that only successful games do) when they release the next update as they have just recently started saying armor will be updated in the next update.

If they devs want us to have any faith in their words they need to make this next update absolutely perfect. otherwise we're going to just be in for another round of half truths and whole lies to cover for failures in design and testing.

I agree with you, I just think that the balance between factions was better. The armor element of the game undoubtedly needs an extreme amount of work and attention.

That's the problem though. The balance was purely a difference between those who knew how to detect the other tanks by bugs and those who didn't. I'm not ashamed to admit that I was one of the later originally - and actively helped the teams I played for win competitive matches by exploiting known bugs in the game. Any competitive team that tries to claim they haven't also taken advantage of known unfixed bugs is just playing PR coverage for the game. No team worth anything would ignore known benefits against their opponents. I'd really bought into the promise of the developers that this game would be realistic, and even ignored the first few updates that showed the devs didn't care in the slightest about what happened in WW2. I am at the point where I cannot ignore what the developers are trying to do. The active efforts to boost German forces outside of their war time existence is troubling. Tiger Tanks never met the US forces outside of 3 very specific engagements - to decide that german forces deserved an Ahistorical unit is purely a developer choice and not something that should be rewarded.


I've talked about similar problems in the past and been banned on the steam forums. so so repost this if you can so others can talk about it after I am silenced by the devs.

[Psycha]

Publicado originalmente por softwarebot:

The needs to be more panzer IV, stugs vs regular sherman play. Being able to spam Tigers and Jumbo's just removes the air of lethality they had in the war.

For example, if one team focuses so much on capping but the other actually focuses on getting proper fuel resources and saving for a tiger it can turn the tide.

tigers are made of paper in this game :p

Thanks to the commander hatch 1 shot exploit. We dont have tank armor values in the game yet as they've stated this before so why do Tigers and other tanks even jumbos get 1 shot in the front using cheezy shots? If its not in the game yet then its a exploit/glitch.

[Stryker]

Publicado originalmente por huma474:

No, in keeping with the amazing efforts the devs have shown so far in keeping to historical accuracy the king tiger will be 150 fuel and you'll see 10 of them in every battle.

As far as the bouncing in the Tiger goes - No German tank had a stabilizer in it and the Tiger was a Pre-war tank. It was extremely heavy, loaded most of its armor to its front and because of its suspension design it would rock heavily when moving from speed to a stop.

Gonna call foul on this one.

I've seen the Tiger 131 come to a complete halt and not bounce like it does in this game. It's ridiculous the amount of bounce they've added to the Tiger I in HLL. It's minimal in any footage and at any of the Tank shows where the 131 is present.

Not only that, but whenever firing the main cannon, it has the same bounce. You can watch any footage of Tiger I's in action and there's almost no bouncing like they portray in this game.

Like I said, the bounce problem with the Tiger I isn't just when it comes to a halt and when firing it's cannon, it bounces heavily when it takes hits. No other Tank in the game suffers from the extreme bouncing that the Tiger does when it gets hit from any shell in the game.

Mark Felton has a good video(The Tiger Tank that wouldn't Die) with a ton of WW2 footage of the Tiger in action. There's barely any movement when firing the main cannon or coming to a halt.

Check out 1:23 to 1:30 in this video, the Tiger is in full motion and comes to a halt, there's almost no forward momentum bounce like in this game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jS5xqSyPbo&ab_channel=HighFlight

[huma474]

Publicado originalmente por 82ADStryker:

Publicado originalmente por huma474:

No, in keeping with the amazing efforts the devs have shown so far in keeping to historical accuracy the king tiger will be 150 fuel and you'll see 10 of them in every battle.

As far as the bouncing in the Tiger goes - No German tank had a stabilizer in it and the Tiger was a Pre-war tank. It was extremely heavy, loaded most of its armor to its front and because of its suspension design it would rock heavily when moving from speed to a stop.

Gonna call foul on this one.

I've seen the Tiger 131 come to a complete halt and not bounce like it does in this game. It's ridiculous the amount of bounce they've added to the Tiger I in HLL. It's minimal in any footage and at any of the Tank shows where the 131 is present.

Not only that, but whenever firing the main cannon, it has the same bounce. You can watch any footage of Tiger I's in action and there's almost no bouncing like they portray in this game.

Like I said, the bounce problem with the Tiger I isn't just when it comes to a halt and when firing it's cannon, it bounces heavily when it takes hits. No other Tank in the game suffers from the extreme bouncing that the Tiger does when it gets hit from any shell in the game.

Mark Felton has a good video(The Tiger Tank that wouldn't Die) with a ton of WW2 footage of the Tiger in action. There's barely any movement when firing the main cannon or coming to a halt.

Check out 1:23 to 1:30 in this video, the Tiger is in full motion and comes to a halt, there's almost no forward momentum bounce like in this game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jS5xqSyPbo&ab_channel=HighFlight

seriously. you're gonna sight the bovington video that was made as a PR stunt for a crowd?


Here's a list of things from the tiger field manual - made for the EASTERN front -
http://paijmans.net/Tanks/Tigerfibel/87.jpg
Sherman M4 75mm chart:
http://paijmans.net/Tanks/Tigerfibel/ShermanChart.jpg

Also, T 131 is almost never diven at combat speeds - someting about it being a CAPTURED MEUSEUM piece

Also, T131 has been improved after market with springs that are higher quality that would have been present in the war. There's also that funny little fact that T 131's restoration wasn't done by slaves to the reich who, it funnily turns out, may not have exactly appreciated the nazi leaders who were compelling their service

[Stryker]

Publicado originalmente por huma474:

seriously. you're gonna sight the bovington video that was made as a PR stunt for a crowd?


Here's a list of things from the tiger field manual - made for the EASTERN front -
http://paijmans.net/Tanks/Tigerfibel/87.jpg
Sherman M4 75mm chart:
http://paijmans.net/Tanks/Tigerfibel/ShermanChart.jpg

Also, T 131 is almost never diven at combat speeds - someting about it being a CAPTURED MEUSEUM piece

Yes, seriously. It's the only working Tiger I in the world. The only difference is the engine was taken out of a Tiger II. So it should bounce even more with the Maybach HL230 engine.

For a PR Stunt? WTF would they gain by not showing it lurching when coming to a halt? That makes no sense. They strive to show the history of every Tank they display. They gain nothing by not showing the true nature of the Tank's capabilities and pitfalls during the shows.

The speed shown in the videos is a lot faster then the in game speed. Again, the bouncing portrayed in the game is so over the top. Not to mention the over the top lurching every time you fire the main cannon.

There's plenty of actual WW2 footage of Tiger Tank's in action as well, I provided the Tiger 131 footage because it's in color and HD. Here's some actual footage of many times the Tiger fires it's main cannon and it stays almost completely stationary.

I realize there was some bounce to the gun when the Tiger stopped, especially at top speeds, but nothing like what is portrayed in this game. It's ridiculous. Especially when firing the main cannon. The devs put it in there as just another weakness to the Tank because they were expecting it to dominate the game when it was first released back in Update 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9qiJFq73UU&ab_channel=PanzerPicture

[Jonno]

Hey everyone,

Good news on the armour front. In Update 9 we'll be rolling out phase 1 of our tank / armour overhaul.

This will be include community lead changes, bug / glitch fixes and more.

As we start locking more bits in around this front you can expect a Dev Brief into what's what on that front :)