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I'm not sure what you mean with "The squad leader's role is severely handicapped and hurts the team playing aspect of the game", because surly, a squad without a officer is what really hurts a team. Perhaps you just need to find good players to squad up with?
The squad leader's role is handicap when it comes to managing the squad because to kick people they either have to die or redeploy(it's also glitched). And vice versa the squad should have the ability to kick squad leaders easily for not fulfilling the role of a squad leader. I can't tell you how many times I've tried switching squads because the SL was OFP and wouldn't leave the position (don't even recommend to vote kick them because that's broken). It also handicaps the game because there's no incentives to being a squad leader so good squad leaders don't want to be squad leaders. People create squads, then switch their roles when others join.
Also, command chat is absolutely ridiculous. I can barely hear anybody between command, other squad leaders and my own squad. That alone is enough to make people frustrated with being SL. How can you be an effective SL if you can barely hear anybody?
Sometimes I play squad leader. I know, you want to say if I'm having so many problems being squad leader then I'm not a good squad leader. Bingo. I suck at being a squad leader, yet whenever I am my squad is usually the top 3...and I suck at being a SL! That should tell you something.
Yes, I get it, I completely get it, you may not experience it for whatever reason. I'm not here to argue. Just join a normal game and look how many OPs are down verses how many squads there are within the course of a game. You'll see a few awesome squads and a lot of straggler squads.
Firstly it's a big change up from being just a regular infantry guy. Secondly there will be players who are not interested in having to deal with all different factors that come into play when commanding a squad of men. And if this leaves you without a SL then it can't be helped.. it's better to play without a SL than to have a SL who doesn't wish to play this role.
But to say that a squad leader role is severely handicapped and hurts the team playing aspect that seems to me a bit far fetch and absurd.
I agree it can be a bit of a nuisance that you are only able to kick someone off the squad when you died yourself as a squadleader, yet before you want to send someone packing from your squad.. inform them about your actions, your reasons and if they fail to comply, next time you die as a SL then say Goodbye and move on.
Many games I've been playing as a SL and even if we win or loose most people in the squad seem to enjoy the game when they play together as a team.. and the key aspect to make that happen lies with the squadleader.
I can't see many faults with the SquadLeader role at this moment.. only wished for better communication options and or a quick key to mute command net.
For example if I'm calling in artillery it would be nice to communicate with artillery one on one instead of calling it in on the main command network. Although with the new markers we have gained a wider range of options to communicate.
This is a game, something to enjoy and those roles are not enjoyable for me any more. Another clue how others feel about the role....watch as you said, how many players start a squad only to take another role when someone else joins or they wait and wait and wait till someone else opens a squad and then join. It's a constant wait and then fast fill, over and over.
I have given in to waiting till the game starts and SL puts down a outpost or someone else puts down a garrison before I join in. There is always a medic, support or engineer role open so, finding a spot isn't a problem.
I have just gotten tired of holding down the keys and all the running to the first point so, I sit back and enjoy my cup of coffee till the fight begins.
You do make a fare point on many cases, I'll give you that, but judging from what you've written, I'm sure you make a perfectly fine SL, because putting down garrisons and OP's is arguably the most important task for the role, and you understand that.
I do also feel there is an incentive to being a SL, I enjoy coordinating with my squad and other squads (especially when the outcome is victory)...But perhaps that just boils down to personal preference. Some people enjoy that extra responsibility, other's do just fine without it.
I'm not too bothered with the way kicking squad members work, but I also seldomly need to kick anybody because I almost always play with players I know well or fairly well. Try looking for community servers, you should notice a difference in player quality, although newcomers and random players are everywhere in MP games...You'll never get completely rid of incompetence or ignorance in any organisation.
When ever I'm playing as just a squad member and someone tries out the SL position I always tell them to put down OPs and garrisons and they're be better than most.
Unfortunately between the server ping and number of players most people end up on private servers, but most of them don't play right.
yea, I do that all the time when I'm squad leader.
I prefer to play squad lead, and when this happens, I make room for people who listen :)
Can be a bit of a double edge sword here..
You got different command styles and different players who can take on the role of commander..
give the commander the ability to kick squad leaders can mean that you end up with one commander and nobody wanting to take on the role as a squad leader. it should also work both ways to and then when command is in disarray the enemy will be knocking on the doorstep of your last objective that you must hold or it's game over :-)
it's always gonna be a complicated issue when you got so many players unknown to eachother each with his own ideas and playstyle to get that into a good organised army.. that is why most of the time you will experience a whole new level of gameplay when you have people from a lets say a clan fighting another clan.. they tend to know eachother and work together more.
that is not to say that a couple of players thrown into a squad can't work together, they just need to be willin' to do so and have someone who is willing to take the lead and command.
The first thing I say to anyone who asks "what do you want us to do?", "You do you. Have fun, let's work as a squad. No pressure." I can't stand SL's who bark orders and try to yell at grown men to do this or that or start yelling at people. THAT is the true failure of this game, same with commanders who bark orders and whine and complain about people not doing things.
As a Commander or an SL, you work with what you got. You can't expect to force people to do things. If my SL's aren't putting down Garrisons, then I try to do my best to put down garrisons as a commander. It gives me tons of exp. I don't point fingers. I don't shame my SL's. If we lose, it's a learning experience for everyone involved. Can't win 'em all.
I do put my all into being an SL or Commander, but the most important part is my squad and my team is having fun. Not gonna yell at a bunch of grown men over a microphone. Adapt to what you got, treat your players with respect and don't get frustrated.
And I hate the kick button. I think I've only used it once, on a guy who was purposely trying to sabotage the team and TKing. Otherwise, even if someone isn't talking, I don't kick them. Some guys have kids asleep or wives, can't use a microphone for some reason or are just new.
I think we need to recognize that there is a difference between yelling at each other, and leading the squads. I'm sure all of us here agree that nobody want's to be yelled at, and we all want to have fun while playing. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't encourage players to take the roles that are essential to help the team.
If somebody asks you "What role do you need?", they are asking because they wan't to help out. Once the essential roles of support and engineer or filled, I agree with you, take whatever role suits you the best.
The problem with not asking players to go certain roles (like support for instance) is that there will be a high risk of never having garrisons for the team to spawn in to. There needs to be an effort from everybody to do tasks you may not find "fun" in order to help the team. Placing garrisons and nodes are very important, and only take a few seconds / minutes. Once that's done, you can return to the action.
I find that players more often than not show appreciation when a SL starts guiding the squad. There's nothing wrong with pointing out what needs to be done and working together to achieve that goal. It's sort of the point of being a squad leader. Hell Let Loose is all about team work after all, and matches where everybody helps out are when this game really shines.
Obviously I'm not talking about SL's who guide with respect. I'm talking about the people saying they wish they could kick this person for not doing what they ask or this and that. At the end of the day, you are talking to grown men playing this game. I understand there are just sometimes when you need to kick someone(afk, TKing, toxic), but on the flip side, too many times do I see people yelling at people or complaining over and over again that people aren't doing what they ask.
Too many times do I see SL's and Commanders shaming people in their squad for playing how they want or "not listening to them". I understand people get frustrated, but I think a lot of people need to understand that there are still a lot of new players, and players who want to try different roles. I feel myself getting "stuck" playing Commander or SL cause noone else wants to do it.
Most Squads I've led and the games I've Commanded, usually people tell me I'm a great leader. Just tired of people coming into games and barking orders and trying to tell people how to play or forcing people into roles and using the kick function as some punishment for not listening to them. I don't tell my Squad to defend, I ask them "Hey, do you guys wanna defend or attack?" I plan my defense and attacks accordingly. Ask my Squadmates to fan out and help me get enemy garrisons and OP's on defense, instead of just sitting on a point in a boring fashion.
There's a lot of great commanders and SL's out there, but there's a lot of bad ones too, and it's mostly because of their attidude. My point is, let people play how they want to play. Lead with respect. Don't just bark orders, listen to your Squad Mates and their ideas, sometimes they may have a better idea then you do.
I totally agree with you, people enjoy when an SL leads and takes the responsibility of leading the entire squad, and most of the time I get really great players who are willing to do anything I may need or the Commander needs, but I never force anyone into roles or kick people cause they may not have a mic or they want to attack instead of defending and vice versa. I'm hoping more people learn from listening to me interacting with other squad mates if they are new.
Can't help smiling when reading such a statement.. neverthelless there is a difference in asking people to help or to bark orders.. I would think we all play this game for fun otherwise why play at all.. I just shared my viewpoint from my own experience of being in command both in RL and in HLL.
In short the thread started with a gentlemen having issues with SL as it is.. I wanted to share my thoughts yet as one can see many different people many different thoughts..
Good thing is we can all decide how to have fun in HLL and which role to play. Don't like SL, join another squad, don't like to play SL, don't play SL.. having problems with commander.. don't play SL for a round or find another server.. problems solved.
it's all about choices..