Make the MG42 a real MG42 please

[Oberst Klink]

I really love the MG42 and i have shot a lot with its newer Version MG3 in the german army. So i can say, the ingame MG42 is definitely not an MG42.
First of all it is very unusuall to use those drums for ammo. You usually use 100 to 200 round belts in boxes or you put one belt around your neck and have 30 to 50 shot belt loaded to have some ammo to fire if you get engaged quickly. The second MG man carries all of the ammo and the second barrel and so on.
Second one, the ingame MG42 shots way too slow, it has ca. 800 rpm when it should be 1200 to 1600rpm. You can shot single shots with the MG42 ingame, thats not possible with the real one. The ingame one is much more like the MG34 with its 800 to 900rpm
Then there is the sound. It really don´t sound like the real one. The MG3 and the MG34 have a characteristic brrrrt brrrrt sound where you don´t hear the single shots. I would love to hear that ingame, like in RO2.
And then there is the bipod, it is too low when you lay down. It should be a bitt higher.
I don´t mention the absolutely bugged setting of both allied and german MG, bc i think this will be corrected in some future updates.

[Andy]

Doctrine at the time was that when in the light machine gun role and the infantry was on the move that the drums would be used.
Difference being that in real life, if the situation changed. the troops could swap to longer belts.
Not really practicle in game.
But, if you think about how the MG gunners behave here, mostly on the move regularly. The drums make sense for the weapon in terms of how the Germans would have operated the guns at the time.
You will at some point get fixed MGs with belts aswell don't forget.

It's unlikely you'll see the gun in the LMG role changed away from drums, and other similar games all do the same thing.
But, it is true to German doctrine at the time.

[Oberst Klink]

You don´t use those drums as infantry. Just puttin in the belts gets you much faster reload time. Those drums were only used in vehicles and planes, they are not usefull for infantry. The weopon is much easier to handle and faster to operate if you put in a 30 to 50 shot belt, load it and then put it around the weapon for longer moving or if you think you will engage soon you put it over your left arm. When you get contact you just have to put the breech in fire position and you are ready to engage or if it is in fire position move the belt to the right, so the shots can get chambered. Then you shot your 50 rounds and reloud the 200 for longer fighting. When you use the drum magazine you have to change it every 50 or 75 shots and it is more fiddly to chamber the belt, which will cost you time.

[Andy]

7. Panzer-Division eredeti hozzászólása:

You don´t use those drums as infantry. Just puttin in the belts gets you much faster reload time. Those drums were only used in vehicles and planes, they are not usefull for infantry. The weopon is much easier to handle and faster to operate if you put in a 30 to 50 shot belt, load it and then put it around the weapon for longer moving or if you think you will engage soon you put it over your left arm. When you get contact you just have to put the breech in fire position and you are ready to engage or if it is in fire position move the belt to the right, so the shots can get chambered. Then you shot your 50 rounds and reloud the 200 for longer fighting. When you use the drum magazine you have to change it every 50 or 75 shots and it is more fiddly to chamber the belt, which will cost you time.

"This is the gun in Light machine gun configuration"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-KgQ-OZJZ8

Period document.
Paraphrasing.
Where rapid movement is required, drum magazine is used.
https://archive.org/details/firearms-mg34-tme9-206a-machine-gun-1943/page/n1/mode/2up

German rifle squad, issued 5 drum magazines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rKRt5zVZgw

The gun in the light machine gun role, used drums.
As is represented in HLL, and PS.

[Oberst Klink]

Only bc there was the possibility to use those drums it isn´t said they were really used widely. You use belts without drums in the light MG mode too and they are much more suitable then those drums with only 50 round capacity. Those drums are annopying when you carry the gun. It is on the side of your body so it is banging into your stomach or hip while on the walk. And you have a much longer reload time, this fits with the MG34 with its slow rate of fire, but with the MG42 you need to belt fed it. German MG belts can be put together as long as you want. Usually 100 to 200 shots, then you know you have to change the barrel after the belt ends and you can shoot much longer.

We use the same MG tactics in the german Army as the Wehrmacht. You have two MG guys in the group. One gunner, carries the gun and around 150 shot, then there is the second man with much more ammo, the second barrel and the breech and he can direct the fire. Thats the light MG mode. With heavy you have a third guy with the gun carriage, but there is no difference in belt feeding the gun.

But using a belt and not the drum magazine is the smallest point i have. The ingame MG42 has a rate of fire which is far too slow. They should make a MG34 of it, then it would be correct (it still needs a better sound) or increase the rate of fire and change its sound.

[Andy]

They were widely used. The information is out there.
You've not looked at any of the information i've posted.

More info here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoxAe0eWRow

They talk about the 34 having tigher tolerances in the machining. And the importance of keeping the ammo clean. So with the 34, drums were used much more extensively. And, that was the doctrine at the time that remained through the war.
Will also explain why the doctrine might have changed from 1939 - 80 years later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_42#/media/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1983-109-14A,_Frankreich,_MG-Sch%C3%BCtze.jpg

[Oberst Klink]

Some guys talking about german MGs are not a valid source. Look at images from that time. Most MG34 and nearly all MG42 don´t use the drum (i just found two pictures with drum).
The MG tactics haven´t changed and it is nearly the same weapon, different caliber and slower rate of fire with 1200 rpm but on some weapons you even still have the eagle on it where you see the removed swastika.
The drum has no advantage, the belts are transported in boxes (we still use the same like in WWII) so you can keep them clean and the belt fitted on the gun will stay clean too if you watch out a little bit. It takes too much time to change the drum and you have not enough rounds to work properly as MG gunner, so you will always use a minimum 100 round belt when you are in your fire position. You can fire just a few seconds with this drum when using on the MG42.

[Andy]

You can lead a horse to water.........

Ian Mccollum is a weapons expert of some note, in the video above about the gun, he talks about the use of the drum mag.

Bernhard Kast is a historian that checks the archives for first hand data. Just as the information is on youtube, doesn't mean he's not a good historian.

I think i'll leave it there, i don't think your going to change your mind, and i'm not going to believe a random on the internet over the information that these 2 guys have put out.
Goodbye.

[Strontium Dog]

I love it when gun nerds kick off lol

[Private Paula]

grabbing my popcorn

[Oberst Klink]

Andy eredeti hozzászólása:

You can lead a horse to water.........

Ian Mccollum is a weapons expert of some note, in the video above about the gun, he talks about the use of the drum mag.

Bernhard Kast is a historian that checks the archives for first hand data. Just as the information is on youtube, doesn't mean he's not a good historian.

I think i'll leave it there, i don't think your going to change your mind, and i'm not going to believe a random on the internet over the information that these 2 guys have put out.
Goodbye.

Yeah and i work with this Gun for seven years now, they didn´t work with it in the field so they just have theoretic knowledge. So no i will not change my mind about it, drums are useless for MG Gunners, when your fire rate is above 800 rpm.

[✠Rumcajs✠]

MG 42 firerate does seem to be too slow in comparison to what I saw on yt, but I am not an expert.

[Andy]

7. Panzer-Division eredeti hozzászólása:

Yeah and i work with this Gun for seven years now, they didn´t work with it in the field so they just have theoretic knowledge. So no i will not change my mind about it, drums are useless for MG Gunners, when your fire rate is above 800 rpm.

Doctrine changes, you don't have experience of the gun during the war, you have an opinion based on your knowledge of modern doctrine. Which is equally misleading.

[Beans]

I noticed in RO2 a while back if your some distance from a 42 you can really hear the buzz saw noise it makes.

[Oberst Klink]

Andy eredeti hozzászólása:

7. Panzer-Division eredeti hozzászólása:

Doctrine changes, you don't have experience of the gun during the war, you have an opinion based on your knowledge of modern doctrine. Which is equally misleading.

We still have the same doctrine, it doesn´t changed. The lessons learned in the war are our principles. It is still nearly the same weapon and the useage is still the same, war didn´t change that much for the infantry.
The fire rate of this MG is way too high to use 50 round drums. You use the MG for supressing enemy while storming or to fight groups when defending. When you have the choice between using a belt with 200 rounds (and just put a new belt in) and then you have to change the barrel and can´t fire or you use four drums before you have to change the barrel, but then you have to reload four times (where you have to put the old one away, the new one on and then the belt into the weapon) between you definitely chooce the belt. The drums were ok for the MG34 but it is like many things designed by engineers for soldiers. The theory is good but if there is an easyer way to use things it will be this way and only putting the belt in and left the drum behind is better and you can shoot longer with shorter brakes for reloading. The MG is the strongest weapon in the squad so it is very important it can shoot the most time in an engagement.

✠Rumcajs✠ eredeti hozzászólása:

MG 42 firerate do seem to be too slow in comparison to what I saw on yt, but I am not an expert.

Yes it is too slow, you can shoot single shots ingame. This was not possible, should be three shots in that time. RO2 has a really good and realistic MG42 model.

[Andy]

I gave you 2 modern sources from people that study this for a living, and one contemporary source from the time. All stating the same thing. Your just being an ostrich.
Ignored.