Suppresion system

[ra4]

How about "suppression system" like is in Post Scriptum? smth around screen fade when you are under fire? it is a nice feature givin immersive, but i didn't see this in video about infantry gameplay(

[Andy]

It's there, and more extreame than PS.
Have a look at some of the game play videos from the Alpha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A38pHzltGrc

I know some people may not like that, but in the alpha. The surpression system creates gameplay where it's advantagous to open fire on the enemy even if your not sure of a kill/hit. This in turn creates more drawn out firefights between 2 opposing squads.
I loved it. I would hope it's going to be kept in a similar state for the beta/early access release.

[ra4]

for me this b&w filter and strange shaking are little bit unrealistic. in PS u have "tunnel vision" with a narrowed field of view. Ive never been under fire in real life of course but I appreciate Post Scriptum for the atmosphere of horror that is so realistically transmitted when you are under heavy fire and everything around you explodes and all you want is to screw up your eyes and eat earth

[Andy]

Originally posted by ra4:

for me this b&w filter and strange shaking are little bit unrealistic. in PS u have "tunnel vision" with a narrowed field of view. Ive never been under fire in real life of course but I appreciate Post Scriptum for the atmosphere of horror that is so realistically transmitted when you are under heavy fire and everything around you explodes and all you want is to screw up your eyes and eat earth

Any and all surpression systems are unrealistic. No ones vision goes when a bullit wisses over your head.
The key is though that the surpression system must cause you to behave in a realistic way like your underfire, that means not being able to return accurate shots and forcing you into cover.
HLL system achives that better than PS and Squad. But, it's on the extreame end, and not everyone will like it.
The game creates the long drawn out firefights though with the surpression mechanic that's not been replicated in other games.
I think once people have experienced it in game and it's effects people may well warm to the idea.

[Kriptkori]

Do you think it is a realistic feature? I dont think it is.

[Andy]

Originally posted by Kriptkori:

Do you think it is a realistic feature? I dont think it is.

Look at it like this.
In most FPS, in most situations you have no real need to open fire untill you have clear LOS and a reasonable chance of a hit. Doing so before hand is likely to give away your position for little reward.
In HLL, you are at a significant advantage if you can suppress an enemy. So it's beneficial to you to open fire when you don't nessesarily have a chance of a critical hit.
This creates longer drawn out firefights, and makes shooting for the main purpose of suppression, a good and usefull tactic to be used in most if not all firefights.
So, the mechanic in itself isn't realistic. But the implementation creates a scenario where the type of firefights you get in are more realistic, and more immersive.

[Jonno]

Originally posted by Andy:

Originally posted by Kriptkori:

Do you think it is a realistic feature? I dont think it is.

Look at it like this.
In most FPS, in most situations you have no real need to open fire untill you have clear LOS and a reasonable chance of a hit. Doing so before hand is likely to give away your position for little reward.
In HLL, you are at a significant advantage if you can suppress an enemy. So it's beneficial to you to open fire when you don't nessesarily have a chance of a critical hit.
This creates longer drawn out firefights, and makes shooting for the main purpose of suppression, a good and usefull tactic to be used in most if not all firefights.
So, the mechanic in itself isn't realistic. But the implementation creates a scenario where the type of firefights you get in are more realistic, and more immersive.

We're also looking at how being in close proximity of your unit/allies can effect suppression.

As it stands we're looking at isolated players being punished more, whilst grouped players will feel the effect less.

[Wolf.Enstein]

Once you all experience for yourselves how effective the suppression system is in-game you'll definitely appreciate how it adds to the combat immersion. You'll also understand what Andy means when he highlighted just how effective a tool it is to use against your enemy.

[NETSCAPE]

I like this suppression. Finally I will be rewarded for my MG dutie in a game!!! I'm all about support.

[DumbNumpty]

Suppression only works for generally ill trained or fresh soldiers. Any elite or veteran will know when and how to return fire and that ammo is a limiting factor.
If you are sticking your head up under fire and not being hit then your not being hit and your vision is as normal.
Under suppression you have line of sight or you don't and its that simple.

Suppression systems are this strange gaming physic that has absolutely no correlation to anything but gaming.

The developers idea to penalise the Rambo's is a good idea for promoting team play but generally suppression systems are a skill levelling penalty.

[Strelokest]

I'm pretty hyped to hear about this. A flaw in so many realistic shooters is the focus on, as somebody else said, only shooting when you know you can get kills. Firefights don't last long because of this. Some games like PS, Squad, RO2, etc try to make MGs into supression machines, but in reality they are mostly just for finding good keyholes as if you have any kind of lines of sight on you, you just get killed even through suppression. I would love to see a game that actually has firefights that last any amount of time, the last game I can remember seeing long lasting firefights was Arma 2 during extreme range fights

To the guy saying that suppression isn't a real thing, the ♥♥♥♥ are you talking about? Real infantry combat is entirely based around suppression, more often than not soldiers fire on the general location of the enemy rather than actually seeing their specific targets. A huge amount of bullets get fired compared to actual kills, commonly quoted numbers are around 20k bullets per casualty in WW2, around 50k in Vietnam, and around 250k in modern wars. Obviously the game shouldn't come close to those numbers and specific battles would have dramatically different numbers, but seeing functional suppression and longer lasting firefights would be absolutely amazing. You shouldn't be turning around and firing back with accuracy when you have MG bullets landing around you, you should be rushing for cover or maybe spraying back if there is no cover in hopes of suppressing in return. Games can't properly simulate the fear of real combat as you just respawn 30 seconds later, they need some kind of mechanic to force reaction to danger.

[DumbNumpty]

"Any elite or veteran will know when and how to return fire and that ammo is a limiting factor."

In what this game represents and ammo load outs, suppressive fire has limited effect and certainly don't make you suddenly blind.
How its represented is purely a gaming mechanic and in games it just acts as a firefight skill leveller and nothing more.

The dev touch of making it worse for Rambo's is a good touch but visual affects do not represent fear factor or suppresive fire.
Even with Hitlers Buzzsaw the allies knew to time the barrel change to make a run for it.
With light arms suppresive fire isn't effective because ammo is a hugely limiting factor or it guarantees a short firefight.

Its purely a gaming mechanic that has zero correlation than purely skill leveling in a game firefight.

[Jonno]

It's cool to see people noticing the 'lone wolf' effect of suppression and how working as a team can reduce its effects.

The game auto itself will add to the feel of being suppressed. When an LMG is letting rip and explosions are going off around you, it sure feels like you don't want to poke your head up.

[DumbNumpty]

Originally posted by Jonno:

It's cool to see people noticing the 'lone wolf' effect of suppression and how working as a team can reduce its effects.

The game auto itself will add to the feel of being suppressed. When an LMG is letting rip and explosions are going off around you, it sure feels like you don't want to poke your head up.

The 'Band of brothers' effect to morale and courage that penalises lone wolfs is a great idea to promote team play.

So even though I am not too keen on 'game suppression mechanics' yeah if its going to be bent a little to encourage teamplay that is a huge bonus.
If a suppression system is employed it would be great to have varying intensity and stun duration.
Where the bigger it is the more intense and longer the cooldown Arty (HE), Mortars (HE), Heavy MG, Light MG then light arms in order of intensity & stun.
I guess the proximity checks can cycle pretty slowly as it takes time for the 'Band of brothers' effect to kick in/ wear off so that a pretty comprehensive Friendly proximity bonus could be created without major effect on tick speed.
Guess you could have a small immediate 'buddy' proximity and a wider 'squad' proximity that have a 'page rank' effect to current 'band of brothers' level based on numbers, rank and cover.

I really like that the Devs are thinking further a field in how to promote teamwork and its such a good idea to include a "Band of Brothers" effect to I guess as many game mechanics as possible, with suppression being one, guess you could use it for things like stamina and a whole range of game effects.

I didn't like the idea of what always results in a slightly flaky 'gaming' effect, but soon as I read 'lone wolf' / 'band of brothers' yeah huge u-turn and that is an exceptional idea.

[Shai`tan]

I totally agree. You don`t need simulated suppression effects. What you do is..... set up your HMGs and start laying down cover fire. Done. I gaurentee your enemy will be either suppressed, or dead. As for promoting team work? Prpmote is a kind way of saying..... force. And every game I have ever played that use the term promote, has used forced gameplay attributes to force team work. And they sucked. Just my opinion. If i join a squad and peeps are not playing tight.... I leave and join till I find a tighter squad. Most of the time though I just bring my own guys. Done. I never expect pub games to magicly provide perfect team work. .... between absolute strangers. Can`t be done./ And if a game ever is so dev micromanaged to force it, I probably will find the game so azz funnless to play, I`ll delete.

[osheamat]

I have to disagree with the above. Its a tough topic, the community (games wide) is split. Some want no artificial anything getting in the way of their aim and control of their character. Others want mechancs that "promote"/force teamplay, coordination, and an attempt at replicating realistic reactions during combat (an impossible task but one that can produce intersting game choices)

Squad was a perfect example that lacking an artificial supression penalty mechanic, players will peak, lean, engage in precision shots (point target) that normaly would never be taken. A player under fire (lets say its mostly accurate, but not so that its hitting his body), should not be able to fire controlled precise shots against the agressor, IMO for the sake of gameplay and promoting the doctrinal use of the LMG/MMG/HMG. Area fire and suppression. If the targeted enemy's cover is being unloaded on(high ROF), most soldeirs/fighters would be unwilling to raise up and take precisions shots.

It all comes down to fire supperiority and maneuver, the basics of small units tactics. Find the enemy, Fix/supress the enemy, flank the enemy to negate his cover, finish the enemy via direct fire. In game, ACOG did and still does dominate and this allowed skilled FPS players to dominate in situations where "cover fire" was rendered useless by a guy who can pixel aim fast, even when under fire.

Being a SAW gunner or M240B gunner before that last major update was easy death unless you had a crazy good position. Once you started shooting at a guy, if you did not kill him outright he can turn and shoot you pinpoint like CSGO.

I get artificiality can get silly, but I like supression. I am not here for KDR and top level twitch shooting.