moon temple

[BoboYagga]

Okay, so I have beaten the moon temple a few times now and I have to say... it sucks. It's just not fun. It's also completely unnecessarily difficult. I can take a character through NG+6 or +7 in the tower, but then will struggle to survive a ng 3 run in moon temple. It just doesn't track. Why shouldn't it make as much sense as the others?

I love pyramids of prophecy, it's my favorite to play in MP. However Moon temple is just too similar. I can't even tell the difference between the first and second area, they are very similar.

Moon temple is a weird mix of boring and lethal that isn't very fun or interesting. I can be moving right along killing everything and then just suddenly die.

end rant

[InsaneWallaby]

Difficulty is likely because of the reward: lunar shields. A good 50 lunar shields effectively halves damage taken for nearly all characters under most circumstances, which is absolutely bonkers when dealing with -500 armor and resistance or worse.

I find it to be decent, but too rippy for continuous runs.

[BoboYagga]

okay... but to get to 50 you would have to get to ng right? so that's a little past where most folks go.

[Bad Aim Bodyshot Barry]

Originally posted by BoboYagga:

okay... but to get to 50 you would have to get to ng right? so that's a little past where most folks go.

iirc its like ng 10 in MT, not alot at all

[BoboYagga]

I read that was 2 per ng +, but I guess that could mean every ng+ gives you 2 more, or that means 2 + the ng + level per completion. - I am guessing it is the latter.

Still I don't like that the difficulty of it is not synonymous with the other difficulties. I should be able to take a character and go tower, pyramid and then Moon temple, without too much difficulty. As it stands that's not a very easy proposition.

This wouldn't be so bad if the levels and the enemies didn't feel so boring. I have no interest in playing it again. where as when I lose at tower or pyramids I don't mind (too much) trying again

[BoboYagga]

also, I think ng10 is still more than a little...

[Brogus]

the entire moon temple DLC was such a huge disappointment that I refunded it- Mercenaries are an interesting concept but they were poorly implemented and felt weaker than the normal classes and the new dungeon was mind numbingly boring.

[InsaneWallaby]

NG+10 is 24 shields and is rather easy to reach. That suffices for most areas, but not the larger ones, depending on character. It is just fine for bosses, which is where the shields really shine. It's nice not having to spend gobs of stars on attuning bosses in the monster book.

[BoboYagga]

Since fewer than 1 percent of the player base (based on achievments) have gotten to level 60, then I don't think ng+10 is "rather easy to reach". I won't disagree that it's doable, I will probably get there for the tower, but my issue is that taking a hero who is capable of ng 10 for example in the tower, will get tend to get destroyed going to the equivelant ng 10 at the moon temple.

My experience has been that a ng +7 tower guy will still struggle at times in moon temple at ng +3 which sucks and doesn't feel right. The same build that breezes through the tower can get killed by an unlucky crit in the moon temple.

Which wouldn't be so bad if the moon temple was ACTUALLY FUN TO PLAY, but I really don't like it, it's the same stuff over, and over again.

Instead of making the bad guys interesting in the Moon temple, they just seem to have just given them rockstar stats and called it good. I don't know.

Maybe it's just me, but @InsaneWallaby, have you actually enjoyed running through the moon temple all of those times to get your 24 shields?

[InsaneWallaby]

Other than the crash that killed my NG+9 mercenary (I rebooted to see I had 31k legacy points and that it had died in mines level 1 while it was actually in moon temple 2.2->2.3 transition where I crashed), moon temple is pretty enjoyable. It is tough for sure, which is part of the appeal over other DLCs. With respect to difficulty, the rest of the game is a bit of a snooze compared to moon temple.

In my opinion, the biggest problem with the moon temple is the variation in loot you can get. I've had the first two floors net me, roughly, anywhere from 4 to 20 items, outside of shops. It always feels very bad and can easily brick a run when you hit the low side. Kiting with skills due to the door mechanic is also really quite difficult, so I just use primary attack. However, other than those issues and crashes, it feels as though it has no major problems, and I enjoy the bosses and enemies.

I do not expect the NG of my DLC runs to match the NG of my tower runs. Arena is included in that statement. Arena gets quite nasty due to the combination of big mummies and trappers.

Finally, the way I play is to press tower NGs, and skip NGs like mad. I went straight for NG+20 on my paladin in the moon temple, while he's something like NG+36 in the tower. I do the same in pyramid and arena--skip a lot of NGs for maximum benefit. I went from NG+25 to NG+40 on my sorcerer in the tower, too, though, so this is by no means exclusive to DLCs. It's just a good overall strategy for moving upward quickly. Even failures are fun when you're getting levels.

[BoboYagga]

The fact that you took a +36 paladin to do a +20 on the temple is exactly my point. It's a massive change in difficulty, which seems odd to me.

Also, the fact that you had a +36 paladin, means that you aren't really having to deal with the same issues that someone who isn't so overleveled is going to have to deal with. I don't doubt that by the time you can get 50 moon shields the game becomes much easier, but I am not there and no where near there. I think it's a bit ridiculous that your answer to how to play it is so woefully tone deaf to what the majority of folks are going to experience. Most folks playing aren't even above +5 let alone higher than that (judging by the accomplishments)

Being able to get enough moon shields that you are able to skip massively, (also assuming you have at least a few characters who are also giving you massive buffs to your guild bonuses to allow you to do that) isn't helpful information, it's just bragging. I don't think you are a good representation of the community to be able to really give advice.

[Adelion]

The Moon Temple is not designed to be of the same difficulty as the Tower, neither is the Pyramid of Prophecy. You should be at least NG+1 or NG+2 before you go into the Pyramid. The same counts for the Moon Temple where you should be around NG+2 or NG+3 before comfortably challenging the new content. This is among other design factors a result of the lower amount of floors which makes the scaling of the enemies appear more drastic in combination with the reduced amount of items.

This can be easily seen (even by Veterans) if you start a new Mercenary run where you have none of all the sweet boni you acquired in main game. Try playing the Tower. It is easy. Try playing the Pyramid. It is doable but considerably harder. Try the Moon Temple. It is still doable but again harder. This is also shown in the base difficulty multiplicators for the different dungeons.

Tower: 75 Legacy Points Base
Pyramid: 175 Legacy Points Base
Temple: 200 Legacy Points Base

So yea, you are right. The Moon Temple is far harder than the Tower. But it is intended.

[BoboYagga]

Maybe it's intended to work like that, but I don't think it makes it fun. I don't like not having a consistent understanding of the difficulty and where I should be at.

[InsaneWallaby]

BoboYagga, I think your expectations are misplaced.

NG+n Tower is easier than NG+(n+1) tower.
NG+n Pyramid is easier than NG+(n+1) pyramid.
NG+n Moon Temple is easier than NG+(n+1) moon temple.
Rank n Arena is easier than rank (n+1) arena.

That is true, and should hold true for all n (although, it likely technically doesn't at very high n--e.g. into the thousands, which nobody in their right mind will go to, and at which point damage is prohibitively low versus enemy effective HP, anyway). This is why player armor and resistance was nerfed at one point--it actually got easier the higher you went at a relatively low n value, so scaling armor and resistance was the game, especially given the statues that convert armor and resistance into damage.

However, there is no relationship between the various runs. Tower NG+n != Pyramid NG+n != Moon Temple NG+n in difficulty, as stated by Adelion.

Perhaps it is poor usability this way, as it leads to misplaced expectations in some cases...but that initial RIP should give you a good enough hint on difficulty, and a death isn't so bad unless it's your mercenary. Really, NG+n is just a number in the end. Who cares? Just play more and figure out how to get it bigger until it goes from being fun to being a chore.

[BoboYagga]

except the whole merc style intimates that they should have some sort of correlation since you start at NG and everything you play after goes up by 1. as if you should start at and then be able to move up to the next. Except that's not how it actually works.

Besides that, I it's just boring, the enemies aren't interesting and their great threats are extra confusing.

Maybe it's just my opinion, but I just don't find it interesting, which is a shame because I feel like Pyramids and Tower are actually fun to play.