Commercial flights should have priority

[Agathorn (SH)]

In my current game that I started after the patch I thought I would play around a bit testing mixed use stands, and an airport with both heavy commercial and general aviation flights.

Ran into a couple outright bugs I will report, but one thing I saw is that commercial flights were often left holding on the taxiway so that GA flights could taxi first. I don't think this is how it should work. Commercial flights, IMHO, should have taxi and take-off priority, and GA should be the ones waiting.

[Shrimply Pibbles]

Well, if you’re going for realism, it’s first come first serve. That’s how it works in the real world. Unless the airliners have a void time; it’s first come first serve. I’ve taken off plenty of times in front of commercial planes when giving instruction in a Cessna.

[steko]

Wht you could do is build a second runway for GA only for now. Tha's what i am using.

Well it is not really first come first serve. On Airports with commercial and GA the ATC has to do speratation which also depends on the aircraft type and wake turbulance rating. They decide who is getting to hit the runway first. For example you can not let a CRJ700 land 1 minute after an A380 touched down. So just use a seperate runway or do not auto accept GA.

[The Former]

I think at least for right now, this is the appeal of choosing NOT to allow all GA flights. That way you can actively manage and see "Okay, well a commercial flight is coming in soon so I think I'll reject this GA request." But perhaps going forwad, they'll implement a method to prioritize automatically.

[Fredrik]

We have plans for displaying GA as well in the flight planner to prevent this. So GA will only allocate to a stand that is available for X amount of time.

[Agathorn (SH)]

@sombrero Thanks for that information. I wasn't aware that it was first come first served, and just assumed it would be priority to commercial flight that has a schedule to keep.

I'm in favor of realism so if that means I need to better manage the issue I'm fine with that.

One thing I would like to see is more information on the GA Request panel to help me decide if I want to accpt them or not. Things like how long they will need a stand and what services they will request would help make my decisions.

@Fredrik
Yeah I noticed in issue that I wasn't sure was a bug or not, where I had a GA flight come in about 30 minutes before a scheduled commercial flight and the GA flight took the Commercial flights assigned stand! This in turn rippled out into the game getting really confused. The commercial flight never landed (the GA flight was parked until well after the schedule departure of the commercial flight) yet the game thought it was "On Time". It wasn't until hours later when the GA left that suddenly the commercial flight (now like 12 hours late) magically appeared and landed and went to its assigned stand. Then at that time the game informed me it was delayed and asked if I wanted to push it back an hour lol.

[Hessan]

I will speak up as I am a Pilot myself (Private Pilot Single Engine Land with Instrument Rating in the US). What has been said is correct. Airlines get zero preferential treatment unless you go to a big hub airport where they are 90% of the traffic. Generally at larger airports they will segregate by runway such that the FBOs are located on the opposite side of the field from the Airline Terminal and have their own set of taxiways and use a paticular set of runways all the time while airlines use other runways. This also comes to the point of how an airport is designed. The local airport I fly out of for example gets 3 or 4 airline fights a day in a CRJ-700 which is little more than a GA (Business Jet) Airplane with an Airliner cabin. The most planes ever in line is 1 or 2. However, at say Hartsfield in Atlanta, they make the airport inhospitable to GA by not even carrying GA Fuel on site and charging hefty fees to push GA to go to other airports in the area. It would all be the strategy of how you built up the airport and services offered to determine if it is GA or Airline focused.

[Shrimply Pibbles]

Steko - separation is different from preferential treatment. Airlines don it get preferential treatment over GA. When no separation needs to be applied and a GA airplane and an airliner are ready for takeoff, and no void time is present, whoever called first goes first.

[Bibi Cocksberg]

Originally posted by Sombrero McSaladbar:

Well, if you’re going for realism, it’s first come first serve. That’s how it works in the real world. Unless the airliners have a void time; it’s first come first serve. I’ve taken off plenty of times in front of commercial planes when giving instruction in a Cessna.

Its not comes first serve first. Its just pretty dumb to let them start infront of you, as youd have to be seperated 7nm cuz of wake trubulences, while they dont need to seperate them if theyre behind you, im also pretty sure that theyre telling you to make a right or left, however Comemrcial flights do have priority. And if you were about to land in your paperplane whilst an A320/B737 was in front of you, youd be told to either extend downwind or to circle. Thats how it is. And why? Because airports dont make money with GA ..

[Hessan]

Originally posted by Bibi Cocksberg:

Originally posted by Sombrero McSaladbar:

Well, if you’re going for realism, it’s first come first serve. That’s how it works in the real world. Unless the airliners have a void time; it’s first come first serve. I’ve taken off plenty of times in front of commercial planes when giving instruction in a Cessna.

Its not comes first serve first. Its just pretty dumb to let them start infront of you, as youd have to be seperated 7nm cuz of wake trubulences, while they dont need to seperate them if theyre behind you, im also pretty sure that theyre telling you to make a right or left, however Comemrcial flights do have priority. And if you were about to land in your paperplane whilst an A320/B737 was in front of you, youd be told to either extend downwind or to circle. Thats how it is. And why? Because airports dont make money with GA ..

7 nm seperation is not required.....The rule is to land after their touchdown point and to takeoff prior to their liftoff point. That keeps you above any wake turbulence and out of it. Wind direction and speed also effects it. (Again, I am an actual General Aviation Pilot here speaking). The rule is to hold you for 5 to 10 minutes if your on the ground depending on wind. This is because generally you cannot out climb a jet and you cannot get to a safe altitude to turn out of their flight path before they cross your ascent profile.

[Shrimply Pibbles]

Ah. I love when people with no aviation experience are the know it alls. I teach this ♥♥♥♥ for a job. Lol. I land behind KR-135 heavies all the time. I also land behind 737’s and A320/1’s all the time. The procedure is to land beyond the point of the jet’s touchdown point and stay above his approach path. Wake turbulence is avoided. Go back to FSX.

Originally posted by Hessan:

Originally posted by Bibi Cocksberg:

Its not comes first serve first. Its just pretty dumb to let them start infront of you, as youd have to be seperated 7nm cuz of wake trubulences, while they dont need to seperate them if theyre behind you, im also pretty sure that theyre telling you to make a right or left, however Comemrcial flights do have priority. And if you were about to land in your paperplane whilst an A320/B737 was in front of you, youd be told to either extend downwind or to circle. Thats how it is. And why? Because airports dont make money with GA ..

7 nm seperation is not required.....The rule is to land after their touchdown point and to takeoff prior to their liftoff point. That keeps you above any wake turbulence and out of it. Wind direction and speed also effects it. (Again, I am an actual General Aviation Pilot here speaking). The rule is to hold you for 5 to 10 minutes if your on the ground depending on wind. This is because generally you cannot out climb a jet and you cannot get to a safe altitude to turn out of their flight path before they cross your ascent profile.

[Shrimply Pibbles]

7nm separation behind a 737/A320. That’s laughable. I’ve even landed in front of them. You know why? Because that’s how approach control sequenced me. “Make straight to the numbers, maintain max forward speed, contact tower 119.9”. I’ve been told that many times. Landed with the jet 3-5nm in trail. So much for priority...

[Shrimply Pibbles]

Also on the ground usually the max wake turbulence delay is 5 minutes. 3 behind a 73 or CRJ; and you can waive it. A heavy is 5 mins non waivable.