Reset Tech Tree

[Jiaura]

The ability to reset the Tech Tree would be a really fantastic addition. This could be maybe a token that you earn on specific levels. So let's say every 4-5 missions maybe you can rework the tech tree. Or earn tokens to undo specific tech tree purchases.

I recommended my brother to the game and he invested heavily in Rangers, which is a total waste long term, and it's daunting to think he has to completely redo the campaign because he chose the wrong tech.

There needs to be more flexibility here. Maybe an option at the beginning of the campaign to play with the tech tree locked, or unlocked.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

Agree this is really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid. Why is there no respec? Makes no sense

[amordron]

It’s not in the basic game but it is possible to reset the tech tree. It’s a bit of work thou are requires playing with game files so always back up your save as can be corrupted.

All you need to do is make a note of the tech you have to get an idea of the points you have spent.

Close the game and remove a few game files jus remove to a diff location. Steam.dill did it for me on v.10. Start the game without steam running using -launch in a shortcut to that exe to bypass steam validation of game files to make the game think you are on a pirated copy this will make your tree reset when you load into a mission. Leave the mission. Exist game restore your files and launch norm to be in a game with a reset tree.

Use cheat engine to scan for your rp now 0 do it a few times to reduce the list size and set all addresses to 140. Learn a 100 point tech than scan for 40 to get the exact address. Unlearn that one perk you learned than set the address to your old point total.

You now how a reset tree.

I did this after beating the game to be able to play around with a tree to do any missions with only the points spent I want to test stuff. I just keep the save as a backup and load it when ever I want to reset now.


As for why there is no reset it clear why and makes total sense.

Being able to drop your points do a swarm mission with full points for men than swap back to a base build after would make everything to easy if it was free. But having one with first respec free than 100 rp after would be fine. As discourages abuse but let’s you fix mess ups. Least now you can redo tech you haven’t won a mission with now.

[Gomez]

Hi

You can make a backup before use your tech tree points and after play the mission. What do you need more? If you don't like your choice you can load again the backup and play the mission again with different techs.

Regards

[herrerik]

The ability to reset the tech choice for a SINGLE mission is not useful. Its just confusing that the option is there. A total respec token every 5 missions or so would make much more sense and make the game more fun.

How it is now you just punish/annoy the players and say "oh but then you can play the campaign again". No, most people will just stop playing or finnish the current campaign but be annoyed that they feel "tricked". New players dont know the game so the tech tree being permanent is a bad idea.

[Cyiel]

Originally posted by ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:

Agree this is really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid. Why is there no respec? Makes no sense

Respec would make no sense. You need to know what you need and what you want later. Making choices is a part of the campaign mode.

Techs are permanent in most (if not every) 4X, RTS (like Starcraft II), etc and you know what ? Nobody complained about it. Because permanent choices are part of these games.

[Begemot]

Originally posted by Cyiel:

Originally posted by ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:

Agree this is really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid. Why is there no respec? Makes no sense

Respec would make no sense. You need to know what you need and what you want later. Making choices is a part of the campaign mode.

And how a newbie might know what would he need later? Can one after a few first missions decide that +20% food from Fisherman Cottage is good, bad or must have? Are snipers worth the investment? How good wonders are? And the list goes on.
Maybe making choices is a part of the campaign mode. But the game should allow making informed choices.

Techs are permanent in most (if not every) 4X, RTS (like Starcraft II), etc and you know what? Nobody complained about it. Because permanent choices are part of these games.

Because those games balanced for any combinations of choices and often give a foundation for making them, and TAB is not.

[amordron]

Originally posted by Begemot:

Originally posted by Cyiel:

Respec would make no sense. You need to know what you need and what you want later. Making choices is a part of the campaign mode.

And how a newbie might know what would he need later? Can one after a few first missions decide that +20% food from Fisherman Cottage is good, bad or must have? Are snipers worth the investment? How good wonders are? And the list goes on.
Maybe making choices is a part of the campaign mode. But the game should allow making informed choices.

Techs are permanent in most (if not every) 4X, RTS (like Starcraft II), etc and you know what? Nobody complained about it. Because permanent choices are part of these games.

Because those games balanced for any combinations of choices and often give a foundation for making them, and TAB is not.

Tab is doable with any combination of choices yes some are harder than others but it remains doable with any. Yes you might have to delay some missions till later (and it might be harder) but remains doable. Even not having farm tech its possible I did a run skiping it to see and getting the food wonder +hunter/fishermans is enough assuming you use space well. Least now that they nerfed pop reqs. Most missions dont even need the wonder. There was one mission I dint get it on and needed adv farms (still not a farm as diff tech).

If you make bad calls you also have the option if you dont want to improve your skills to be able to use the build you have to turn difficulty down.

Even apoc in the extreme case has been done with only rangers and supporting tech (save last mission and one swarm mission), as well as no soldiers or mainly inn unit builds. As well as many other builds that are def less viable than the "go to".


The tech choice the matters in tab is when you get aoe. Beyond that pick there really is nothing that overly hurts you. If you delay getting aoe to long yes it can be painful but still doable and you are able to skip the main early mission you need aoe on rather easy via going the north path which doesn't need aoe for a long time. If you are over 50% of the game (when you basically have no choice but to do a "aoe" mission) and still dint think oh aoe might be helpfull ya that's on you. Even than its still doable without but it will be harder. The stuff you did take thou will make those "aoe" missions doable without (thou might req more skill). Knowing what your weaknesses are and addressing them is a skill. This has little to do with knowing what is coming and entirely knowing what your lacking and addressing it.

In a game called "they are billions" its not a leap to judge aoe being a key thing to making the difficulty reasonable.

While the above is true even for apoc 800% diff. New players that don't have a rough idea of what there going to need should not be on apoc giving a even larger degree of freedom in the tech tree. Them learning the game and getting a good economy build down matters more than there tech build. There tech build helps but if playing eg challenging just having a good economy to pump out a ranger from 3-4 solider centers all game (not something super hard to do) will win you most missions rather easy. Even more so if you get solder tech around 10% of the campaign done or sooner and use those.



That being said I do agree there should be a one time free respec than the ability to respec after at a cost of perm reduce to your max RP for the campaign run to discourage abuse. There most def should not be a way to respec freely least not till your 100% clear on your run.

[Begemot]

amordron, just an advice: please write essentially, don't be nitpicky and don't make up stuff. Maybe it's only me, but It's hard to understand your point. Like here:

Tab is doable with any combination of choices yes some are harder than others but it remains doable with any. Yes you might have to delay some missions till later but remains doable.

You quoted me, but to whom you responded? I didn't say anything about doable or impossible missions.
[/quote]If you make bad calls you also have the option if you dont want to improve your skills to be able to use the build you have to turn difficulty down.

Did you mean this: "If you made bad calls you also have the option if you don't want to improve your skills to be able to use the build you have or turn the difficulty down"?

Even apoc in the extreme case has been done with only rangers and supporting tech (save last mission and one swarm mission), as well as no soldiers or mainly inn unit builds. As well as many other builds that are def less viable than the "go to".

This and the next paragraphs are giant and unnecessary. And you completely forget that we are taking about newbies, who don't know what "supporting tech" even means.

[Cyiel]

Originally posted by Begemot:

Originally posted by Cyiel:

Respec would make no sense. You need to know what you need and what you want later. Making choices is a part of the campaign mode.

And how a newbie might know what would he need later? Can one after a few first missions decide that +20% food from Fisherman Cottage is good, bad or must have? Are snipers worth the investment? How good wonders are? And the list goes on.
Maybe making choices is a part of the campaign mode. But the game should allow making informed choices.

Techs are permanent in most (if not every) 4X, RTS (like Starcraft II), etc and you know what? Nobody complained about it. Because permanent choices are part of these games.

Because those games balanced for any combinations of choices and often give a foundation for making them, and TAB is not.

There are no good or bad choices. There are only choices. By the end of the game your tech tree will be complete.

You have the "normal" mode to learn a little about the game. And for the rest, you can read the Tech tree.

I disagree with your last point.

[Gomez]

Hi,

I want to remember you some words from the Develop Team about the Tech Tree and the implementation of the Back Up system.


Technology Tree

Some players mentioned that if you don’t achieve certain advances you won’t be able to progress in the missions.
In our tests we have completed the entire campaign in Challenging with very different (and crazy) tree settings. We have even completed the campaign with only one unit: the soldier with all his improvements, without attack towers, and without any micromanaging, simply making hordes of soldiers and sending them to hunt. Also, using the Inn and its rewards without investigating any unit. And so many other situations and game styles just for fun.

In the end, what we want to say is that the fun comes from exploring and creating your own strategies with the resources at your disposal, to adapt and survive, that's what the game is all about. We hope you’ll agree.
Still, if you get stuck in a mission you have several options:
- There are always other missions to complete first, in which your technological configuration may have an advantage, and then you can return to the previous one with more progress made.
- If you are still stuck, lower the difficulty for a specific mission. The only change is that you win fewer victory points.

From this announcement ---->> https://steamcommunity.com/games/644930/announcements/detail/1616144864289506164


New Option to Save a backup of the Campaign

From the game menu within the Dashboard of the campaign you’ll find a new option to record the current state of the campaign in a new slot. You can continue when you want using the Continue option in the main menu. (This is not available inside a mission, just in the campaign dashboard).

We have implemented it for two reasons: First and foremost, we do not want anyone to lose the progress of the campaign. In such a long game losing the advances due to an error or a disk problem can be a disaster.

This will also allow you to perform tests with the technology tree or try different levels of difficulty... in short, experimenting a bit more with the game.


From this announcement --->> https://steamcommunity.com/games/644930/announcements/detail/1616144864304282294

Thanks.

Regards

[Begemot]

Originally posted by Cyiel:

There are no good or bad choices. There are only choices. By the end of the game, your tech tree will be complete.

I'm sorry, but have you finished the campaign? By the end of the game, you'll have only 60%-80% of techs.
"There are no good or bad choices." Okay... Let me paraphrase: There are more beneficial techs than others and your choices may make your game much much easier or harder. For example, Cape of Storms with Shocking Tower and without it is two completely different missions (400 soldiers different).

You have the "normal" mode to learn a little about the game. And for the rest, you can read the Tech tree.

So where in the tech tree or the game for that matter I can read about the sound mechanic and "loudness" of units/buildings? Or will snipers be efficient investment or they will mockingly leave 1 hp to specials and solders are straightforward better in everything but range? Where can I read about how much water for fishing will be on missions?
Or you're suggesting to do a whole 50+ hours of an unchallenging playthrough to learn a little. And only then start a proper campaign?

I disagree with your last point.

So do you think Cape of Storms (again) with Shock towers and without them or ability to build soldiers are at the same level like Star Craft's for example gun or HP upgrades for Terran bunkers?

[GiveMeCake]

I actually came here for this exact reason! I was playing a mission fairly early on and failed on day 18 despite having 70 archers. It's clear at this point that soldiers are way better, but sadly, I can't get them for the mission. The mission is based around fishing, but I didn't get the fishing upgrade...

Letting us respec wouldn't take anything away from the game at all, it's already challenging enough on it's own, especially with different difficulty settings.

Now I'm reading reviews, and other people's experiences while playing the campaign and I don't think I want to play this game anymore. I thought the campaign would be amazing, but it's super bare bones. Taking away options and hiding them behind a tech tree is frustrating and every mission is exactly the same, with the same requirement? I probably got my moneys worth, but damn this game needs some work.

On day 18 I had 2 soldier centres with full queues and 2 warehouses and I still was having trouble spending all of my resources because there's just nothing to build! I haven't unlocked anything yet. There's only 1 upgrade I can research. Who thought this was a good idea?

[Begemot]

Exactly this:

Originally posted by urlings_55:

Again, I get you: the save backup was introduced to remedy the problem and in theory it does. In practice players forget about that option. And frankly that is a major concern. They back themselves completely into a corner, find out they made the wrong choices and don't have the skill to work themselves out of the issue, they come asking here for help and you can bet on it they did not make a backup. And that will lead to frustration.

I just want to add two points:

• Imagine if I had chosen snipers and turns out they are underwhelming. But gladly, I have a backup and now I need to replay up to 15 missions only to realise that I want to change something else... Like +20% fish or Mercenaries. Hours (after loosing) on top of hours (after "respeccing") of replaying the same missions.
  
• It's not only about winning. It's also about feeling that you were tricked. Sometimes it's impossible to estimate an importance of a tech and the tech costs aren't helping. Wood Buttresses (Wood Defenses: Life+20%) and Assault Rifle (New Unit: Soldier) cost the same 120 points so the game treats them as equivalents, but in reality, you better even not to use Wood Defenses at all.

I still like the idea of giving core techs (units, buildings, and trains) as a mission rewards. It makes sense, the train goes from the capitol and loads resources from your colonies on the way.

[Andrewbh2003]

honestly i feel like the fix is rather simple

to add my take on it i dont think a FULL respec should be the option or if it is it should only be when you play like 50% difficulty as anything higher would not be warranted cause IF the devs do add a full respec option i can see it being abused very easily especially at higher lv play

what i do think should happen "devs plz read this il probably post this in suggestions" is just add like a message saying something along the lines of " remember to make backups in case you regreat your decisions" that way it still would remain punishing and well "Punish" you for making some mistakes but also avoid a lot of the frustration i know a lot of people have from this since i do agree with what has been said here

[tondeaf]

This is absolutely ridiculous. Uninstalled. Left a negative review. Just because of this. Obviously people were not excited about the campaign, but that was the only reason I bought it.

This and no saves = stupidest game dev decisions ever.