Anyone tried the improved Lucifer (+50% protection vs. spitters) yet?

[El Guapo]

Lucy's pretty cool, it just used to suck.
I wonder if the unit finally has a purpose beyond the niche application to guard chokepoints.

Did anyone try the new Lucy on a larger scale, like 10+ Lucies?
Can it be used for map clearing now?

[GatyKahn]

Lucy is good for early waves or weaker type of monster waves like zombie houses. However this game is all about end game and splitters / harpies / fatties + aoe for zergs of zombies meta.

This is also what the end wave contains.

Lucy much like soldier is really really bad against them, lucy also doesn't have a start game as it's a late game unit.

The moment you are able to make lucy you will not be in need to have them to defend your base as it should already be protected easily.

Lucy is also way way to slow to be used in any decent manner, so clearing a map with them is pointless, and even walking in your base to another wall is utterly inefficient as it can't shoot through walls.

The only thing that lucy got going is its defense, but frankly if you put a thanatos or a sniper behind 4 layers of walls that's what 2000 hp?. defense is a non issue in this game.

The money is better spend on thanatos, or snipers to clear map and reenforce yoru walls with.

[Liobuster]

IMO they also lack range alot

[Operation40]

I feel like their place is on the other side of the wall.. with the zombies.
a lucifer zombie would be cool

[Crukih]

Hot damn when did this change occur!?

I don't know if lucifer’s are still viable yet per say. I think they need more than just a stat adjustment. The biggest problem is that by the time you can actually buy them, you already have an army of snipers making them more or less redundant. Still it's nice to know the developers are taking our feedback into consideration and trying to improve the game ^.^

[[para]dox]

yeah, now things are much better
10 lucifers+15 snipers behind them can work together now
obviously its not that good as a deathball of snipers, but at least they are not dying from spitters like flies

[GatyKahn]

They run to slow, to be efficient and need microing which makes them bad for outside the walls.

Better of with snipers.

[Dukenukem117]

Still not worth it. Gatygun nails it on the head. By the time you get it, you don't need it anymore because the hordes have so many fatties that they just overwelm it. Even worse is if it gets sort of surrounded and starts to spin and burn everything around it. Next thing you know, your own units are on fire. It needs to be so far ahead of snipers to not do this that the snipers cant cover them from spitters anymore.

I'm honestly not sure how this unit will ever be fixed short of a MASSIVE buff. For it to get in front of the zombies face at later hordes, it needs to be almost immune to low level zombie attacks which means something like 15 armor. Then only fatties and harpies can damage it, and believe me, thats plenty to take them down. It needs to hard counter basic zombies 100%. Otherwise you might as well just get thanatos and walls.

And turn off the damn friendly fire.

[Echofinger]

Yeah, but did ANYONE ACTUALLY TRY THEM SINCE THE PATCH???

Just sayin'...

F it, I will, brb.

[[para]dox]

i did, my previous post was based on testing after the patch

[MikhaNoodles]

I think that for them to have a shot at being viable, they need to be available eariler on in the tech tree. Maybe finding a way to have lucy be available from the stone workshop would be nice. However, this is difficult since you unlock oil at around the same time as lucy is now. Idk. Since they're unlocked at about the same time as Thanatos and the 2 fill similar roles, the 2 are bound to be compared. The buff helps a lot, but they'll still die to mass venom. Maybe to make lucy more viable, make it available earlier and nerf thanatos. Other than that, I'm most find with lucy. It's meant to have a weakness against ranged enemies and high health ones, but be strong against groups of trash. They're meant to be backed up by snipers. Also they should be better than Thanatos at offence. i.e. Going around the map clearing zombies. Thanatos should be too slow and loud for that, even though they aren't right now AND mass sniper is god tier, and be better at defense. But to repeat myself, I think the main problems are when lucies come online, and how strong thanatos is.

[SpaceCat]

I was hoping for a Soldier change instead but ... yeah, lucifer =/ What's odd is that I had more trouble with chubbs than spitters since in the last wave it's usually the spitters that arrive last for me. They could've just made it 'legal' to make lucifers enter towers in front but still forbid them to shoot through walls, the bug afaik to make lucifer enter towers can still be exploited but I don't see it as op since they still can't shoot through walls and still has to be put in a front tower.

[Evilsod]

Originally posted by paradox:

yeah, now things are much better
10 lucifers+15 snipers behind them can work together now
obviously its not that good as a deathball of snipers, but at least they are not dying from spitters like flies

Unless they changed something about Snipers also, a deathball of snipers does not die from anything so I have no idea what you're doing, but you're doing it wrong.

Short of 2-3+ spitters turning up at once in the middle of a huge mob of units, Lucifers have enough hp regardless to survive. Bonus resistance is welcome but not even close to making Lucifers actually useful.
Outside of mayors awarding Lucifers as a bonus early on, by the time you can produce them you don't need them and want to start pumping out Thanatos.

This is just how Survival Mode is always going to go in its current set up.

[[para]dox]

probably i just builded the sentence in a wrong way - i mean lucifers are not dying from spitters as they did before
deathball of snipers is overpowered and cant be defeated in the current state of the game

[Dukenukem117]

My post was based on the game I just played where my lucifers got nom nom nom'ed by late game horde even though they were covering a narrow crack in the wall.

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I do think they should moved to barracks tech and unlocked at stone. Stone is where you unlock your first serious AOE (shock towers) but they are static and you can't put them everywhere at this stage in the game. Lucifers would have a window of use for mobile AOE and clearing the map with sniper support. They still wouldn't make much of a difference late game, but they if a handful of them can help you clear the map, thats a big contribution. Plus they could add in some kind of vet maybe. As it is, going melee range on the later waves is utterly suicide no matter what unit you use, so I'm not sure what else they can do besides let you put it in a tower or fire through walls, at which point you might as well use something else.

They really don't need an oil cost tbh. Just remove that and price them as is and see how that goes.

I submitted it to the feedback forum:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/644930/discussions/4/1692662484251839586/

[Quineloe]

with 400 hp, taking some venom damage was never the problem with Lucifers. The problem is that they never advance on venoms because their high noise makes them constantly attract more enemies to attack so the venom can just shoot over and over.