Pathfinder: Kingmaker

Pathfinder: Kingmaker

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Kobolds or Mites?
I can't decide, which one should i help?

Any advice on this?
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Showing 46-60 of 81 comments
ElectricSkull Jun 9, 2019 @ 8:08am 
i made them praise me like a god! and give them my gloves as new relics
Arcadian Nov 7, 2019 @ 7:59pm 
I'm more interested in the morally "correct" option than material gain, and I'm all about overanalyzing. Since we have no proof against either, and we know that Tartuccio had a hand in this, both sides are currently innocent. That means the neutral option would be fair.

But let's say you're good aligned, and choose a side. That would be unfair because you don't know their true intentions or what they've done before. Still, if I had to choose a side I'd pick the mites because the kobolds went aggressive and accused them for stealing.

At the same time making the ally with none option neutral is stupid, because it's also a good aligned choice. You simply can't pick the good side in this conflict, so I'd say choosing neither feels right. If they then go against you it's their own fault. They could still have remained neutral to you.

Also, I would like to know something. Since you get a kobold quarters for allying with them, can you get a mite quarter for allying with the mites?
Last edited by Arcadian; Nov 7, 2019 @ 8:29pm
CaoLex Nov 7, 2019 @ 8:35pm 
Originally posted by Arcadian:
Also, I would like to know something. Since you get a kobold quarters for allying with them, can you get a mite quarter for allying with the mites?
No, you can't. Not like kobold quarers is even important, in the previous versions it was even detriminal to have one since it was changing the ending a bit to the worst but apparently people love kobolds enough for dev to change it.
Mites give you a bit of nice dialogues thought.
And they really at the right here.



Originally posted by Arcadian:
At the same time making the ally with none option neutral is stupid, because it's also a good aligned choice. You simply can't pick the good side in this conflict, so I'd say choosing neither feels right. If they then go against you it's their own fault. They could still have remained neutral to you.
Nah, the people in the thread already mentioned that D&D (and Pathfinder's as a result) moral alligment is different from the real world. Especially modern one.
GrandMajora Nov 7, 2019 @ 11:05pm 
Originally posted by Arcadian:
I'm more interested in the morally "correct" option than material gain, and I'm all about overanalyzing. Since we have no proof against either, and we know that Tartuccio had a hand in this, both sides are currently innocent. That means the neutral option would be fair.

But let's say you're good aligned, and choose a side. That would be unfair because you don't know their true intentions or what they've done before. Still, if I had to choose a side I'd pick the mites because the kobolds went aggressive and accused them for stealing.

At the same time making the ally with none option neutral is stupid, because it's also a good aligned choice. You simply can't pick the good side in this conflict, so I'd say choosing neither feels right. If they then go against you it's their own fault. They could still have remained neutral to you.

Also, I would like to know something. Since you get a kobold quarters for allying with them, can you get a mite quarter for allying with the mites?

Well, by nature, Kobolds are Lawful Evil, and mortal beings from the material plane. This means that 1 - They can be controlled with a strong enough leader, and 2 - Killing them is usually a permanent solution to your problem.

Mites are Fey Creatures, which means they just keep respawning when they die, so long as they remain in the First World, or some place with a strong enough connection to it (like the Stolen Lands). They are also Lawful Evil by nature, but the fact that they are FEY means that dealing with them on a regular basis would be an absolute pain in the ass for most people!
mk11 Nov 7, 2019 @ 11:51pm 
If you are NG cant you avoid the fight?

So it is only CG and LG who are good and need to make a decision. Other decisions suggest that LG means all evil races should be eliminated but if you don't like that then allying with Kobolds as mortal beings seems to make more sense. For CG you could be arbitrary or select the Mites on the basis that there may be a way to persuade them to return to the First World.
Arcadian Nov 8, 2019 @ 12:51am 
Originally posted by GrandMajora:
Originally posted by Arcadian:
I'm more interested in the morally "correct" option than material gain, and I'm all about overanalyzing. Since we have no proof against either, and we know that Tartuccio had a hand in this, both sides are currently innocent. That means the neutral option would be fair.

But let's say you're good aligned, and choose a side. That would be unfair because you don't know their true intentions or what they've done before. Still, if I had to choose a side I'd pick the mites because the kobolds went aggressive and accused them for stealing.

At the same time making the ally with none option neutral is stupid, because it's also a good aligned choice. You simply can't pick the good side in this conflict, so I'd say choosing neither feels right. If they then go against you it's their own fault. They could still have remained neutral to you.

Also, I would like to know something. Since you get a kobold quarters for allying with them, can you get a mite quarter for allying with the mites?

Mites are Fey Creatures, which means they just keep respawning when they die, so long as they remain in the First World, or some place with a strong enough connection to it (like the Stolen Lands). They are also Lawful Evil by nature, but the fact that they are FEY means that dealing with them on a regular basis would be an absolute pain in the ass for most people!

Not sure how that will affect me in the end. Will I have to return to the same area again and kill the mites if I side with the kobolds? Faeries and dryads are also fey. You're saying they are evil in this game?
Arcadian Nov 8, 2019 @ 12:59am 
Originally posted by mk11:
If you are NG cant you avoid the fight?

So it is only CG and LG who are good and need to make a decision. Other decisions suggest that LG means all evil races should be eliminated but if you don't like that then allying with Kobolds as mortal beings seems to make more sense. For CG you could be arbitrary or select the Mites on the basis that there may be a way to persuade them to return to the First World.

No. NG characters are still good. They just don't put as much emphasis on the law as LG does. You have to be LN, N, or CN for the peaceful option.
GrandMajora Nov 8, 2019 @ 5:04am 
Originally posted by Arcadian:

Not sure how that will affect me in the end. Will I have to return to the same area again and kill the mites if I side with the kobolds? Faeries and dryads are also fey. You're saying they are evil in this game?

Fey Creatures are not necessarily EVIL, but they operate under a set of rules and thought processes which are completely alien to most mortal comprehension. Even the best intentioned Fey can be extremely frustrating for anybody who's not prepared enough to deal with them.

https://youtu.be/jhnYc5E13eo
corisai Nov 10, 2019 @ 5:43am 
Originally posted by GrandMajora:
Fey Creatures are not necessarily EVIL

:steamfacepalm:

D&D and Pathfinder have own set of rules. Any creature that stated to be "Always Evil" is ALWAYS evil, except very rare & famous uniques.

They ARE monsters to be killed by nature of this world, no need to redeem them.

And modern "moral" is gone directly into black hole in case of D&D universe - as gods are REAL here and punishment for unbelievers / heretics ARE 100% real too. Breaking taboos here leading to oblivion and not a normal.
Arcadian Nov 10, 2019 @ 5:53am 
Originally posted by corisai:
Originally posted by GrandMajora:
Fey Creatures are not necessarily EVIL

:steamfacepalm:

D&D and Pathfinder have own set of rules. Any creature that stated to be "Always Evil" is ALWAYS evil, except very rare & famous uniques.

They ARE monsters to be killed by nature of this world, no need to redeem them.

And modern "moral" is gone directly into black hole in case of D&D universe - as gods are REAL here and punishment for unbelievers / heretics ARE 100% real too. Breaking taboos here leading to oblivion and not a normal.

If the creators of DnD and Pathfinder decided that all Fey are evil I simply can't agree with their ideas. They are intelligent creatures that can be reasoned with. Mites might not be a shining example of that, but I wouldn't have guessed they were Fey the first time I saw them.

Fey creatures like nymphs and dryads who simply protect their lands aren't necessarily evil. Someone isn't evil until they perform an evil deed. You aren't born evil just because you belong to a race. There are always exceptions to the rule.

Humans keep threatening these creatures with their expansion and industrial activities. A baron who orders his workers to cut down a forest despite knowing there are Fey living there is the true evil.

Last edited by Arcadian; Nov 10, 2019 @ 6:11am
corisai Nov 10, 2019 @ 7:08am 
Originally posted by Arcadian:
If the creators of DnD and Pathfinder decided that all Fey are evil I simply can't agree with their ideas.

No, very few feys are evil by design. Usually they're Chaotic Good (but don't forget that being immortal beings they could think that death isn't scary for you so they good acts can be very dangerous for mortals).
CaoLex Nov 10, 2019 @ 8:37am 
Originally posted by corisai:
Originally posted by GrandMajora:
Fey Creatures are not necessarily EVIL

:steamfacepalm:

D&D and Pathfinder have own set of rules. Any creature that stated to be "Always Evil" is ALWAYS evil, except very rare & famous uniques.

They ARE monsters to be killed by nature of this world, no need to redeem them.
Most Mites are Lawfull Evil. But Lawfull Evil is not necessary an enemy of human civilization. Chaotic Evil is. This is a bit different for Paladines who willing to fight even with gazebo if they think that its not following their God decrees good enough.
Most of Dryads supposed to be chaotic good but they actually give much more troubles and doubths to player than half-civilizied mites with which even Good ruler easily can reach aggrements.
And the Law on their side anyway.
Last edited by CaoLex; Nov 10, 2019 @ 8:39am
corisai Nov 10, 2019 @ 8:59am 
Originally posted by CaoLex:
Most Mites are Lawfull Evil. But Lawfull Evil is not necessary an enemy of human civilization. Chaotic Evil is.

LE = devils = Hell. So you're okay with Hell? :steamhappy:

Originally posted by CaoLex:
Most of Dryads supposed to be chaotic good but they actually give much more troubles and doubths to player than half-civilizied mites with which even Good ruler easily can reach aggrements.

Are we're about same game? As in Pathfinder:Kingmaker is only one dryad...

You can say whatever you want but if you kill all mostrous races (trolls&kobolds) you will get best ending for a common folks & farmers. If you keep mites / kobold in first Act you will get ending that they still pose a threat for travelers and bypassers...
CaoLex Nov 10, 2019 @ 9:39am 
Originally posted by corisai:

LE = devils = Hell. So you're okay with Hell? :steamhappy:

In that setting devils are leagues better than demons.
Beside, not all LE characters even egoistical. Even game tryes to push you to LE aligment slowly since most of the wise decisions marked as LE.

Originally posted by corisai:
Are we're about same game? As in Pathfinder:Kingmaker is only one dryad...

No, there was 3, althought one was not dryad anymore and turned into monster instead.
that damn tree

Originally posted by corisai:
You can say whatever you want but if you kill all mostrous races (trolls&kobolds) you will get best ending for a common folks & farmers. If you keep mites / kobold in first Act you will get ending that they still pose a threat for travelers and bypassers...

Nope
With kobolds there was near fatal incidents in the ending and little doubt that somebody will die soon. With mites they will make jokes on travelers from time to time, at worst some theft but mostly will keep to themselves. If both eradicated then monster spawn is out of control and they become constant treat and the ruler decides to seal the caves, but can it be a permament solution? That ending also makes it oblivious that there is a profit in having either mites or kobolds at that cave system. But at least Mites polite and honest enough.
Last edited by CaoLex; Nov 10, 2019 @ 9:40am
corisai Nov 10, 2019 @ 10:10am 
Originally posted by CaoLex:
Beside, not all LE characters even egoistical. Even game tryes to push you to LE aligment slowly since most of the wise decisions marked as LE.

First - Evil characters ARE egoistical. This is core rules of D&D and Pathfinder. They can have friends & lovers but still be egoistical - like Regongar. Logical or not - it's rules of that universe so we should follow them. Like jedi invulnerability to laser rifles (lol) that set in stone by SW rules regardless of how silly it's looking.

Second - game alignment are bad written as there is too many NG options and too few NE. Plus I can't execute / banish Linzi for reading my messages. This is @#$% non-sense.


Originally posted by CaoLex:
No, there was 3[/spoiler]

Well... Yean, you're right - I remembered Kimo dryad. :)

Originally posted by CaoLex:
Nope

AFAIK with mites your citizens even placed a warning sign to avoid that place. So I can't call it "just a few jokes". Mites jokes are more like throwing knifes in captured kobolds - they aren't safe at all.

This why I think that permanent solution after some struggle is much better then constant source of minor headache with kobolds/mites.
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