Multiclassing NPC Companions

[Finarfin]

Do many people add an additional class to the companions or basically just allow them to completely level up in their default class? I was thinking of giving Ekundayo a second class, but I'm just not sure, with a max level of 20, that it's a good idea to spread their levels, though I did do it with my player character.

[gfish3]

You can find some interesting builds from these links

https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffects_guide_v2/post6

https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/companion_builds/post1

[w.f.schepel]

Especially early on, animal companions are quite important on hard and unfair. I turn Jaethal into a green sorceror. Works extremely well due to the charisma build she already has as an undead.

Wish I had done something else with Valerie as well. She is just plain useless to me as a fighter. I got my animal companions as tanks. (With some skeletons as an addition layer of protection.)

[Wraith_Magus]

Keep in mind that the Call of the Wild mod has different class builds for most characters, although it's optional (but by default on if you install the mod). This means that Valerie, for example, has different attribute distribution (which is generally better in CotW) and is a Vindictive Bastard (the neutral-aligned not-Paladin). Giving her a 1-level dip into Oracle for Nature's Whispers means her high Cha replaces her Dexterity to AC and lets her cast 4 extra Cure Light Wounds/Divine Favors/Obscuring Mists per day. (I had her take Plagued as the curse, which is kind of funny because fluff-wise, it makes her like a leper, but everyone still goes on about her beauty. Considering her "I hate everything that's pretty or enjoyable or the concept of happiness itself" attitude, she'd be down with it, I'm sure.)

Also, here's a website with builds advice, and just about every single one is recommending a dip in some class or another.
https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-kingmaker/guides/Builds

[Finarfin]

Ok, I'm convinced that I'm not necessarily gimping my game by allowing my companions to branch out and discover their true selves.

[Icedfate]

full disclosure, i'm a NOOB when it comes to minmaxing and theory crafting builds
this game seems more forgiving of milticlassing, as long as you don't do something weird, like taking a character that has low INT and multiclassing into a class that relies on INT.

multiclassing still confuses me, because i grew up with 2e Ad&d and multiclassing made you level up slower and your attack bonuses were lower and you got access to less spells and i always felt like multiclassing made for a weaker character, but then there are all these builds outmthere for baldurs gate that are multiclassing and dual classing(which is a different thing).

i try not to follow the guides too closely, preferring to make my own decision s even if it's suboptimal. .i really screwed up my main, freebooter 7 with dualing sword proficiency was planning to become and aldori swordmaster and then ended up going dual wielding and took a level in vanguard and a level in vivisector and a level in thug. . .because it seems everyone dips thug and vivisector. . .i have mostly salvaged it with feat picks and i can stand my own on the front line now.

as for the companions, i have dipped into something with practically all of them.

Octavia comes in with 1 levle in rogue already pretty much set up to multiclass into arcane trickster, which actually seems really powerful, as it gets the same spell progression as the wizard so i see no reason not to do it and online guides say that too, to do arcane trickster as asap and max it out before switching back to wizard.


i saw a suggestion online to turn amiri into a sacred huntress and i chose to do that, givineg her barb 4 and the rest in huntress, take boon companion feat to catch the pet up to your level

it seems that with any pet class, you don't want to dilute it too much or the pets won't keep up with you. with boon companion, you can afford to dip 4 levels into non pet classes, i haven't tried multiclassing 2 different pet classes

the general consensus appears to be to keep casters pure like clerics, just stay as a cleric or maybe 1 dip into monk.

some folks said to dip valerie into monk for crane style. i gave her 2 levels in it, but didn't take the bugged crane wing that's "supposed" to only work if her offhand is empty but somehow works anyway with her tower shield, i chose not to take that feat even though i optimally should take it.

i saw a build that has nok nok multi into barb invulnerable rager at level 8. I leveled him to rogue 10 first to get the drain strength on sneak attack ability first and then switched to barb at level 11.

alchemists too, i think are more powerful staying pure. i feel like those bombs are too good to dilute them with multiclasing, it seems like multiclassed alchemist is only when someone mains some other class and dips into vivisectionist for whatever reason, i guess for the mutagen and the sneak attack i'm assuming.

[Wraith_Magus]

For Ocatvia, note that she's basically explicitly built to be an Arcane Trickster. Arcane Trickster, however, doesn't say "you need 3 levels of Rogue", it says "2d6 sneak attack damage", which presumes three levels in a class that grants sneak attacks, but in Pathfinder, there's a little feat called Accomplished Sneak Attacker that adds +1d6 sneak attack if you already have 1d6 Sneak Attack, up to half your level (specifically to assist those who multiclassed with Rogue). This means you can get Arcane Trickster with nothing but the one level of rogue she already took. You can even get back the caster level you lost through Magical Knack if you take Additional Traits, and be a full level 20 wizard by endgame, even if you take a further dip into Vivisectionist (for more sneak attack). (This may take the Favored Class Bonus mod with Call of the Wild, though...)

[mbradtke]

multiclassing allows some classes like bard or warrior to become stronger in some cases, it depends on the attributes, valerie makes a good brd f.e, however for eku it is not recommanded so much, also some pets trivalisize the game early on - mid game by a lot, you may like it or not, i woudnt feel forced to play OP builds, just play what u want to and adjust the difficulty, once u learn the basics and are aware of some stuff, there is no need to exploit OP stuff anyways, a game is just difficulty as long as you don't know how to solve the problem and pathfinder has more than one solution to this

[ExcaliburV]

I usually split Octavia into a rogue/wizard/arcane trickster, Regongar into a magus/dragon disciple, Valerie into a fighter/stalward defender. Occasionally I've tried other things too, though I don't remember any examples off the top of my head.

Generally I try to keep the companions in classes that fit the character, though.

[w.f.schepel]

Originally posted by mbradtke:

multiclassing allows some classes like bard or warrior to become stronger in some cases, it depends on the attributes, valerie makes a good brd f.e, however for eku it is not recommanded so much, also some pets trivalisize the game early on - mid game by a lot, you may like it or not, i woudnt feel forced to play OP builds, just play what u want to and adjust the difficulty, once u learn the basics and are aware of some stuff, there is no need to exploit OP stuff anyways, a game is just difficulty as long as you don't know how to solve the problem and pathfinder has more than one solution to this

This. The vast majority of 'build tricks' simply isn't needed at all. Party synergy with mono builds generally gets the job done. Went through wotr on core with almost exclusively mono builds when everybody on the forum was going on and on about obligatory level dips. Simply put, they aren't. (Only turned Lann into a proper ranger because I like animal companions.) What makes me laugh is most these build guides that proudly state builds were tested on challenging. That difficulty is easy mode no matter what you do. Go and min/max there and you end up with no challenge at all.

[Invisible]

I just have fun with multi classing. On a normal diffculty it's ok to have some wonky class mixuters for roleplay. On higher diff you better stay true to synergies or mono class.

[Icedfate]

i tried the roguelike dungeon with what i like to call the "classic" party. basically I purposefully made the cliche trope party, a plain ass fighter, cleric, rogue, wizard, ranger and bard, no fancy subclasses and kept them true to their class, no multiclassing. I expected them to be weak as heck, but they made it to level 20 just fine. i never felt like i was struggling the whole way. I did retire them before i got to the floors with the wild hunt guys though. .
the main bonus of playing that group is that I didn't have to agonize over what to give them on the level ups. i just gave the fighter lingswords and all the weapon focus and specializations and dodge and armor focus and shield focus. I made the cleric take heavy maces to fit the theme of old school cleric could only use blunt weapons and took weapons focus and armor and shields. I did give the fighter and the cleric shield wall , as those were my tanks. ranger got all the bow feats. bard got all the buff spells. i had the wizard mostly with direct damage spells and meme magic missiles and fireballs, rogue took everything to make them a better rogue, backstabbing and short swords focus and trickery skill focus.

I think those work well together because they make up for each other's weaknesses. every skill is covered, someone is good at a different skill.. the party has tanks, spell caster, ranged attacker, buffer, healer

as long as you keep it balance, you'll probably have a stong party.
i dunno how 6 fighters or 6 wizards would do, but there's probably minmaxers out there who would make the weirdest counterintuitive combination of characters muktilclassed and then they would turn out to be the most OP team of 6.

[HavokVonFaust]

Originally posted by ExcaliburV:

I usually split Octavia into a rogue/wizard/arcane trickster, Regongar into a magus/dragon disciple, Valerie into a fighter/stalward defender. Occasionally I've tried other things too, though I don't remember any examples off the top of my head.

Generally I try to keep the companions in classes that fit the character, though.

I turned Linzi into an Arcane Trickster too, aside from some buff spells, it's the only way to make her somwhat useful (sneak attack).
Valerie sucks major balls for me. Yeah, she's a tank with almost 50 AC, but near the end of the game, it barely makes a difference.
I have Amiri as pure barbaraian and Nok Nok as pure rogue. And although Nok Nok is abit of a glass cannon, they are really heavy hitters (hasted Nok Nok pulling 7 sneak attacks per turn is brutal).

[Wraith_Magus]

Originally posted by HavokVonFaust:

I turned Linzi into an Arcane Trickster too, aside from some buff spells, it's the only way to make her somwhat useful (sneak attack).
Valerie sucks major balls for me. Yeah, she's a tank with almost 50 AC, but near the end of the game, it barely makes a difference.
I have Amiri as pure barbaraian and Nok Nok as pure rogue. And although Nok Nok is abit of a glass cannon, they are really heavy hitters (hasted Nok Nok pulling 7 sneak attacks per turn is brutal).

Every AC counts. Currently playing with Call of the Wild, I can hit 50 AC around level 9. She's a Vindictive Bastard, though, not Tower Shield Specialist in CotW, which has some different things to work around.

With CotW, however, you get access to Oracle, and it *really* pays to get Valerie one level of Nature Oracle so you can get the Nature's Whispers revelation, which replaces her bog-standard Dex with Charisma to AC. If you otherwise went with Tower Shield Specialist, this goes a long way with Armor Training raising the max Dex to AC, which now applies to Cha to AC, however, there's still a benefit to Valerie's Vindictive Smite if you are Vindictive Bastard for the high Cha. Mithral Plate is your best friend, but until endgame with a specific artisan getting you +5 mithril plate, you're going to be stuck with +1 mithral plate you buy in the capital, because any lighter armor that gives you more than 3 Dex to AC is going to give less AC overall unless you use the Craft Magic Items mod, which you should. (Celestial Armor is quite appropriately godly, but you can't buy it normally.) You can dip Monk to save a feat on prereqs for Crane Style. Build Valerie purely for AC, she only attacks to trigger fighting defensively and combat expertise. (Remember, both stack!) Valerie doesn't do damage, she's just is a pair of feet moving the armor wall into place. She can also make an OK platform for Dazzling Display to also hit the enemy in the attack rolls, but if you have barbarian Amiri, she gets a rage power that lets her turn shaken into frightened, so max persuasion and get that, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥! I also got her shield wall and had my mercenary trip fighter take shield brace and shield wall to boost up Valerie's AC a little higher. Beyond that, it's up to buffing and crowd control magic. Buffing makes up such a large amount of AC that I go from being hit on 4s to being hit on 20s if I buff, and that's part of why I keep a Druid around just to get those buffs like bone fists. Don't forget Displacement is always good in a pinch, too!

[Icedfate]

i thought scaled fist was supposed to give CHA bonus to AC
.
.
so, it appears that some of these huge numbers and OP builds folks are talking about require you to be using that mod, which i'm not opposed to, but right now i'm trying to have the "vanilla" experience.
using call of the wild mod and then talking about how powerful your character is feels,like in 5e when someone brags about how OP they are, using the untested unearthed arcana stuff . . of course you're gonna be OP when you use UA and homebrew things

[Wraith_Magus]

Originally posted by Icedfate:

i thought scaled fist was supposed to give CHA bonus to AC
.
.
so, it appears that some of these huge numbers and OP builds folks are talking about require you to be using that mod, which i'm not opposed to, but right now i'm trying to have the "vanilla" experience.
using call of the wild mod and then talking about how powerful your character is feels,like in 5e when someone brags about how OP they are, using the untested unearthed arcana stuff . . of course you're gonna be OP when you use UA and homebrew things

I wouldn't say "of course". A lot of homebrewing is done to balance things that are broken in the base game, and you can't hold the most extreme nonsense you can find on the Internet against the concept of homebrewing. Besides, 5e is an incomplete system that requires the DM to homebrew answers to a lot of basic questions like "what is this magic item worth?" because WotC can't be assed to do it right. (Oh, and Tasha's Cauldron of Blatant Power Creep puts a lot of UA and homebrew to shame in terms of breaking the power curve while being completely by the book, anyway...)

Call of the Wild only allows you to get more powerful by having more of the PnP game's content, it actually nerfs you in a lot of ways if you were getting by on certain exploits, as well, since it does a lot of fixes of the base game. (Say, by using the Necklace of Double Crosses on a character with a bow to get sneak attacks without AoOing your own party members because you don't get AoOs with a bow unless you have a specific feat. ) It's just that if you're using everything at your disposal and CotW puts several extra classes and dozens of feats at your disposal, you're going to take a couple of those. Also, if I'm starting with different base companion classes, I'm obviously going to build them differently.

The builds I linked before - https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-kingmaker/guides/Builds - are all vanilla game, and honestly, most of them are a lot more wild than what I suggest. (Valerie with only 11 levels in tower shield specialist (fighter), 3 in vivisectionist (alchemist), 4 in thug (rogue), 1 in monk, and 1 level of stalwart defender.)