Summon Monster (Spoilers, maybe?)

[StipulatePrism]

Alright, here's a question/gripe that isn't related to a bug or difficulty for once.

What's the deal with the Summon Monster spells? It looks like we are locked into a default summon for each level.

1. Dog
2. Wolf/Dog
3. Monitor Lizard/Wolf/Dog
4. ???/Monitor Lizard/Wolf

I get that it isn't particularly feasible to offer a list of every possible monster before you summon it, but it sucks that we are locked into the default answer that isn't even the optimal choice for each. I think everyone would agree that eagle is a better choice than dog, and since we see a Roc or Giant Eagle flapping around in a trailer, we know that flying creatures are a thing in-game.

Second, why would Herald Caller be a playable Cleric Archetype if you can neither summon Angels/Demons nor Celestial/Infernal versions of the base creatures? I'm not complaining that it is in the game, I love summoning focused builds, but I'm a little salty that I'm not being given the option to summon the, you know, angels. Lantern Archon is summonable at SM3, but not in the game.

Is there an official answer or reasoning behind the decision? Because from where I'm sitting, pickling in my own salt, it doesn't seem like a particularly great one. My Herald Caller/Thessalonian Specialist (Sloth)/Mystic Theurge is feeling a bit left out at the moment.

Finally, has anyone reached SM9, and would they be willing to share the list of default creatures or if I'm wrong? I have a problem with rerolling characters and have yet to pass level three casting.

Cheers in advance.

[sosen42]

Ya i am a bit annoyed I can summon celestial versions of my summons. I made an aasimar herald caller and all he does it summon muts and lizards

[Bastell]

To many pets at the petshop...

[rmiller_nub]

Question on those spells. Does the summon only do one creature?

[CAV]

I'm not crazy about Monster Summoning either. Summons should be more exotic and interesting. As it is with my Herald Caller, I have to learn other summoning spells, instead of learning buff/restoration spells and converting them to heal or summoning as needed. I can't even see an arrow to choose the different monster summon options, when I use the spell converted version.

[TripSin]

I just wish that the summoned monsters weren't weak as all ♥♥♥♥. What a waste of my spell slots.

[StipulatePrism]

Originally posted by rmiller_nub:

Question on those spells. Does the summon only do one creature?

When you select the spell to cast it you have the choice between summoning 1 at level creature, 1d3 (level - 1) creatures, or 1d4+1 (level - 2) creatures.

[Ghost]

got two wizards and a cleric spamming monster summoning and a Herald Caller with Animate Dead. Valerie tanking and a pure Fighter Longbow specialist on main assist.

it's pretty strong

[Blackdragon]

Summons are crap until about half way, when you start getting non-animal critters.

Interesting summoner is Inquisitor Monster Tactician - summons for 1 min/level rather than 1 round/level, and his summons get his tactical feats which he gets for free. But he only casts up to level 6, so his summons will be weaker than a full caster class. Not sure if teamwork feats and longer duration is worth it: if your summon is weak and killed early, neither duration nor feats will matter. I'd probably rather have a stronger summon for 1 round/level (possibly 2 with extend?) than a weaker one for 1 minute/level, if the weaker will just die in first few rounds of combat.

Dunno about herald caller. It's 3 free feats, but at cost of domain and medium armor prof. Many domains have crap spells at certain levels, so you might be wasting several domain spell slots that way (hidden tax). But it gets full casting, and 3 feats are still 3 feats. If you're planning a 1 level Fighter dip, might as well take Herald Caller, as you won't be losing as much.

[Mauman]

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

Summons are crap until about half way, when you start getting non-animal critters.

Interesting summoner is Inquisitor Monster Tactician - summons for 1 min/level rather than 1 round/level, and his summons get his tactical feats which he gets for free. But he only casts up to level 6, so his summons will be weaker than a full caster class.

That's NOT how the Monster Tactician works. His summons are spell like abilities that start as level one and end as LEVEL 9. He has 3 + wisdom modifier available for use. Given the duration, with a decent wisdom that's quite a lot.

Combine the fact that he has more of his highlest level summons than any other class (not the most summon spells available, just the most highest ones), they last pretty much forever, and they get team feats....

He's the best summoner in the game.

[Iry]

The class is called Pokémon Master, not Monster Tactician. Silly.

[StipulatePrism]

The problem I've found with playing Monster Tactician is that my summons don't get the Teamwork Feats, despite meeting the criteria. I thought having a pack of wolves at lower levels with Outflank and Precise Strike would be sick, but neither function. I've already made a bug report. Or added to an existing one, at least.

[SIlverblade-T-E]

dogs/wolves TRIP
this is very, very good.

you do take Augment Summoning feat I hope, or Superior Summoning?
if not....why bother being a summoner?

Do you know EMPOWER SPELL feat and items works in Monster summonings?
(provided it has a dice range Empower works on any spell, ie summon 1d3 dogs etc Empower does work and adds +1 critter)

;)

[JadeDejavu]

Originally posted by SIlverblade-T-E:

dogs/wolves TRIP
this is very, very good.

you do take Augment Summoning feat I hope, or Superior Summoning?
if not....why bother being a summoner?

Do you know EMPOWER SPELL feat and items works in Monster summonings?
(provided it has a dice range Empower works on any spell, ie summon 1d3 dogs etc Empower does work and adds +1 critter)

;)

But the question is if metamagics can be applied on the Monster Tactician's class feature. I doubt that.

[SIlverblade-T-E]

Superior Summing DOES work with Monster Tactician, just tested it :)
(got 4 dogs maxuimum, rather than a max of 3 as per normal)

so hopefully Augment Summoning is in effect as well

[JadeDejavu]

Augment summoning is not metamagic. For metamagic you open the spell book and apply it to the spell. That doesn't work with the class feature. (also, Empower only works on damage I think)