Amiri vs Barbarian Leader: WTF? (spoilers)

[Z3R0]

So I've reached a point in the story where it seems like Amiri is determined to take on the leader of her old tribe by her lonesome. And she seems woefully inadequate to the task. After buffing her to the max with potions (blur, heroism, displacement, enlarge) and trying to mindscrew him with the chaos shard, he still pounds her into the dirt in a few swings.

After reloading 4 or 5 times, I got tired of trying to complete this scene and started researching the quest (i.e., metagaming.) And as it turns out there is NO way to beat this guy. So what's the damned point of having this scene other than to frustrate the living #$!@# out of the player? Couldn't they just have Amiri say "See ya!" and head off to certain defeat off-screen?

[.//slayer]

It's a common trope in videogames - instead of using a cutscene or textual description, designers mess with the player a bit and demonstrate the strength of an enemy by in-game means.

Whether it's good or not is up to an individual. I personally find it okay.

More examples and a thorough explanation here:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HopelessBossFight

[Finrod]

What is needed for the best outcome of Amiri's quest?

[Z3R0]

@Finrod According to my research the actual goal is not to defeat Armag, but to behead the Defaced Sister trying to kill Amiri's old buddy. Take that with a grain of salt though, because I've barely passed that point in the game.

[Uzkin]

There are two possible outcomes of the fight. Either Armag beats Amiri in a fair duel, or Amiri beats Armag down to a point where the Defaced Sister has to step in and save Armag. The barbarians consider the latter a win for Amiri, and this has some story consequences later in the game.

It is certainly possible to achieve the latter, at least up to and including challenging difficulty (see below); Amiri "wins" if the Sister interferes and says "Enough of this foolishness..". Still, if you cannot beat him it's not a big deal.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2076256795

[Z3R0]

Looking at your combat log reveals a couple of differences. For one Armag is actually *missing* Amiri. In my game, every time he swung Amiri took it in the face - unless she quaffed a potion of invis or displacement. How'd you pump her AC so high?

Another point is that Amiri apparently was 13th level (based on 13 BAB) whereas my Amiri was only level 11. Your Amiri also has a bite attack, whereas my version can only attack with claws when not using a weapon. My Amiri is more of a default build.

I'm playing on a custom difficulty between normal and challenging. (Basically the same as challenging but with 'normal' enemy damage, as per tabletop rules.)

[InEffect]

It's easy on any casual difficulty. Beating him on unfair is a whole other deal. Pretty much if you don't build her as a bite+trip with 2-3 bites per round you have no chance there. Not that it matters, really. The whole thing is inconsequential.

[Uzkin]

Originally posted by Bananaman:

Looking at your combat log reveals a couple of differences. For one Armag is actually *missing* Amiri. In my game, every time he swung Amiri took it in the face - unless she quaffed a potion of invis or displacement. How'd you pump her AC so high?

I had her quaff a potion of invis or displacement. :) Sounds like you might be a bit underleveled and your Amiri build might be weaker vs. Armag than mine, in which case you should either lower the difficulty a bit or just accept loss in the duel (it matters very little).

[Z3R0]

It's too late for a replay with lower difficulty. The MC has already kicked Armag's forces out of the grasslands. Don't want to replay all that if I don't have to.

I think Amiri is under-powered because I've taken a more generic approach to her 'design', without putting a lot of thought into it. Most of my effort (and item allocation) has been lavished on the MC. Improved Critical (rapier), Outflank, Precise Strike, Seize the Moment and Greater Bane synergize so nicely with Harrim's crit field. Too bad the guy waddles as fast as lame duck...

But back on topic, what are some good build guides for Amiri? It's probably too late to correct a sloppy build, but it'd be nice to know for my next visit to the Stolen Lands.

[Uzkin]

I checked my Amiri build in the above screenshot (it was taken almost a year ago), and it was nothing special (B=barbarian):
B1 Toughness
B2 Animal Fury
B3 Weapon Focus: Bastard sword
B4 Lethal stance
B5 Outflank(team)
B6 Deadly accuracy
B7 Power Attack
B8 Increased DR
B9 Improved Critical: Bastard sword
B10 Increased DR
B11 Combat reflexes
B12 Increased DR
B13 Critical focus

I had given her as much DR/- as possible via feats and gear, which lowered her damage taken by quite a bit. I also had her use all the relevant potion buffs, including the one that reflects damage back at the attacker (very useful vs Armag).

I guess these days, after the bug fix, Reckless stance would be better than Lethal (if you run with a bard or similar). And someone probably has a better build for her, than my simplistic one shown above.

[Z3R0]

Originally posted by Uzkin:

I checked my Amiri build in the above screenshot (it was taken almost a year ago), and it was nothing special (B=barbarian):
B1 Toughness
B2 Animal Fury
B3 Weapon Focus: Bastard sword
B4 Lethal stance
B5 Outflank(team)
B6 Deadly accuracy
B7 Power Attack
B8 Increased DR
B9 Improved Critical: Bastard sword
B10 Increased DR
B11 Combat reflexes
B12 Increased DR
B13 Critical focus

I had given her as much DR/- as possible via feats and gear, which lowered her damage taken by quite a bit. I also had her use all the relevant potion buffs, including the one that reflects damage back at the attacker (very useful vs Armag).

I guess these days, after the bug fix, Reckless stance would be better than Lethal (if you run with a bard or similar). And someone probably has a better build for her, than my simplistic one shown above.

My Amiri looks like the following:

Stats (enhanced): STR 22, DEX 13, CON 20, INT 10, WIS 16, CHA 10
Base HP: 159 AC: 21 (part of the problem?) Weapon: Flaming Earth Breaker +2 (+17/+12/+7, dmg 24-39)
B1 Toughness, Bastard Sword
B2 Lethal Stance, Uncanny Dodge
B3 Power Attack, Danger Sense I
B4 Lesser Beast Totem
B5 Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword), Improved Uncanny Dodge
B6 Beast Totem, Danger Sense II
B7 Cleave, DR I
B8 Deadly Accuracy
B9 Imp. Critical (Bastard Sword), Danger Sense III
B10 Internal Fortitude, DR II
B11 Cleaving Finish, Greater Rage

What is Animal Fury and Critical Focus? Probably wasted too many feats on Cleaving things, plus I've only found one Bastard Sword w/ elemental damage, and that went to Val.

[Dorian Gray]

I think I posted on this topic before for an Amiri build that allowed me to defeat the Barbarian Leader (about 50% success rate).

1. Respec'ed Amiri into 2-handed spec.
2. Maxed out the trip feats for her level.
3. Pre-buff. (with a bunch of pots)
4. Go

If you can keep him tripped without getting hit too often, you will win.

IIRC, I think I could take 2 hits before dying. If he gets a third hit on me before I have a chance to heal, Amiri is toast.

[Z3R0]

Hmm, there's a "Cloak of the Winter Wolf" that gives you a free trip attempt with every bite attack, as well as +1d6 damage. If my Amiri build had had a bite attack, worn the cloak and (crucially) had won initiative, that might have done the trick.

[GrandMajora]

I have only managed to get Amiri to win this battle one time in all my play throughs, and I did it by drugging her up to her damn eye balls with potions galore.

But if this happens, then one of the Defaced Sisters jumps into the fight and uses magic to force Amiri to lose. It's not a fight that she's supposed to win.

[Dorian Gray]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

I have only managed to get Amiri to win this battle one time in all my play throughs, and I did it by drugging her up to her damn eye balls with potions galore.

But if this happens, then one of the Defaced Sisters jumps into the fight and uses magic to force Amiri to lose. It's not a fight that she's supposed to win.

If you get to the point that the defaced sister jumps in, it will allow Amiri to lead the barbarians latter in a future dialog option.

So, even for RP purposes, winning (sorta) does have an impact on your play through.

[Z3R0]

Yes I think I've reached that decision point. Amiri didn't get the leadership role, but her friend (sister?) Nilak was chosen to be chieftain by universal acclaim.