Beginner magic question

[EverNight]

My character is a sorcerer. You start the game with a crossbow that does 1-8 damage. But my spells like acid splash, jolt, ray of frost all do 1-3 damage. Why would I ever use them?

[Propsken]

A few reasons. Off the top of my head:
-Acid Splash etc. aim at a target's Touch AC, which doesn't include actual armor, and is usually lower that the regular AC.
-Crossbows deal piering damage, which is more often resisted than acid, fire, cold or electricity would be.
-Your cantrips' damage is magical in nature, whereas a standard crossbow's damage is non-magical. Many higher-level creatures in the game resist non-magial damage.

[Marneus]

I have to reveal you a sad truth of the game : Sorcerers are bad before level 6. Period. They get useless cantrips that do no damage unless you multiclass into Rogue/Arcane Trickster. They got no good spells at first, Scorching ray is okay, but you really want Fireball to start doing things.

Overall, Sorcerer is a good class, with lot of spells, good versatility if you know which spells to pick, interresting AoE DPS but... Only past level 6.

To answer you, i would say : Use crossbow at first, you have less chance to hit than with the Ranged Touch cantrips but you will deal more damage, unless you multiclass into rogue.

[Propsken]

Originally posted by Kahrtolann:

I have to reveal you a sad truth of the game : Sorcerers are bad before level 6. Period.

Kinda true for ANY spellcaster really. Early-level spell rarely have the "oomph" you'd expect from an individual capable of rewriting the laws of the universe at a whim. But once you start hitting those 3rd and 4th level spells...
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards

[[TGC] MadGod]

A sorcerer trades versatility of a wizard for sheer number of spells. And since you are using Charisma as your main stat most of the time, it opens up other venues to help the party than damage.

Demoralizing enemies for instance will cause them to be shaken for at least 1 round in a 30' radius. No save, you just need to beat a DC of 10 + level of the enemy + WIS mod of the enemy with your persuasion skill.

At low-mid level that is a no brainer. Your DC will be well below 20 most of the time an if you look at level 5, you will roughly be @ +9 bonus. Fighters usually do not have good WIS, so you will end up with a dc of 10+level, maybe 11+level. So you can start the fight by giving enemies a (non-typed) -2 on all important rolls without a save or resistance that stacks with everything (apart from another shaken status).

At the same time, you can cast the same spell much more often than a wizard, albeit at a later level. And since your demoralizing uses the same stat as your spell casting, it will scale with until midlevel.

And looking at end-game WIS scores (25+) and level 20 opponents, you will be looking at DCs between 35 and 45. Looks bad, but at that level your bonuses have skyrocketed as well. The bad news is, at high levels the -2 means nothing because demoralize cannot stack to frightened or panicked. Then again, late levels means lots of spells for the sorcerer, no more going "BOO" at the enemies. The only reason to try to stack small debuffs would be a horde of necros tossing ranged touches at you since their attack bonus sucks, every -2 helps. :)

But as it was mentioned, Sorcerers are usually used as "dip" class to reach other, "cooler" classes. They are underestimated and hit very very hard at late levels, especially with the more offensively minded bloodlines.

[erian]

Originally posted by Kahrtolann:

I have to reveal you a sad truth of the game : Sorcerers are bad before level 6. Period. They get useless cantrips that do no damage unless you multiclass into Rogue/Arcane Trickster. They got no good spells at first, Scorching ray is okay, but you really want Fireball to start doing things.

Overall, Sorcerer is a good class, with lot of spells, good versatility if you know which spells to pick, interresting AoE DPS but... Only past level 6.

To answer you, i would say : Use crossbow at first, you have less chance to hit than with the Ranged Touch cantrips but you will deal more damage, unless you multiclass into rogue.

Strait up disinformation.With very few exceptions sorcs deal more damage then almost any other class at the beggining of the game due to spell specialisation,metamagic rod(you can pick it at 3 lvl at oleg's) and high ac of the enemies.It somewhat levels when other classes start to pick up good magical items and feats.After that sorcs become aoe and cc kings.

[Mauman]

Originally posted by Kahrtolann:

I have to reveal you a sad truth of the game : Sorcerers are bad before level 6. Period. They get useless cantrips that do no damage unless you multiclass into Rogue/Arcane Trickster. They got no good spells at first, Scorching ray is okay, but you really want Fireball to start doing things.

Overall, Sorcerer is a good class, with lot of spells, good versatility if you know which spells to pick, interresting AoE DPS but... Only past level 6.

To answer you, i would say : Use crossbow at first, you have less chance to hit than with the Ranged Touch cantrips but you will deal more damage, unless you multiclass into rogue.

Sylvan Sorceror says hello :D

[Propsken]

Originally posted by erian:

Strait up disinformation.With very few exceptions sorcs deal more damage then almost any other class at the beggining of the game due to spell specialisation,metamagic rod(you can pick it at 3 lvl at oleg's) and high ac of the enemies.It somewhat levels when other classes start to pick up good magical items and feats.After that sorcs become aoe and cc kings.

While the choice of words might be exaggerated, I wouldn't call it "disinformation" either. See, there's arguments for both sides of the table.
Let's look at a level 3 sorc and a level 3 fighter. The fighter's only resource he needs to manage are his hit points; his capacity to attack and damage remains consistant over a longer period (let's say, the "golden standard" of 4 encounters per day). The sorcerer, on the other hand, has his spell slots to manage as well. A sorcerer with no spells left is no longer contributing to a fight effectively. Of course, you could argue that a fighter without hit points would be facing the same problem, to which I would reply with "same for the sorcerer", so they're even on that field.
In any given single encounter starting at full resources? Sure, a sorc can put out the hurt better, even at lower level. But spread out over the adventuring day? Different story.

Also, we're getting off-topic :D

[Shadenuat]

Casters are the most important part of the group for winning on high difficultues starting level 1. Simply right clicking Daze on Linzi and Tartuccio in prologue shows why.

[OnlyOffensive]

How to succesfully run early sorcerer. Human sorc > spell focus evocation > spell specialization magic missile. Boom you have level 1double missiles, pretty devastating. Later you fill spell spec with missiles or ray to get early 2-3 rays

[Propsken]

Pretty devastating. For one fight. As I just outlined.

[OnlyOffensive]

no? It always keep your magic missiles early to much more powerfull level. Goes for lvl 1 -3 -5 etc. Untill you hit cap at 9. Thouth you are gonna switch to ray on 7 lvl or smth. I did it myself and i have to say my sorc on early levels ( hard ) was pretty usefull. You just have to pick "right" spells early, thats main problem. Missile and color spray carry you through act 1.

[Yaldabaoth]

Melee is linear
Magic is quadratic

[Mauman]

Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:

How to succesfully run early sorcerer. Human sorc > spell focus evocation > spell specialization magic missile. Boom you have level 1double missiles, pretty devastating. Later you fill spell spec with missiles or ray to get early 2-3 rays

Alternatively, run Sylvan Sorc (with either cat). Cast mage armor on it if you want, otherwise let the cat just do it's thing while you watch the enemies drop.

[OnlyOffensive]

Im speaking about actual casters, not pet classes. Everyone knows how "good" pets. im surprised you havent advised taking 1 level in vivesectionist.

[Propsken]

You're either not following the concept of D&D/PF being designed around having more than one encounter per day, which stresses the need for resource management, or you're not reading what I'm saying (which is basically me outlining said game design and management issues) and just reacting like a dog chasing a car.
Or you're trolling.
Trying.

Can we get back on topic? I believe OP wanted to know why a Sorcerer would use cantrips over a crossbow.