Let's make a Savage Build

[Selvokaz]

Themed based on the crazed berserkers of lore, of which some could change into monstrous bears while enraged or at least emulate them, this build aims to do 2 things. Rage often and while doing so fight with animal like ferocity, using claws and teeth.

Classes: Invulnerable Rager archetype Barbarian 17/Thug Rogue archetype 3

Half Elf or Human for this build, we'll use Half Elf

Starting Ability Scores:
Str 10
Dex 16 (all future ability score increases go here from 8th level on.)
Con 14 + 2 from racial ability modifier
Int 13 (+1 at 4th level to bring it to 14)
wis 12
Cha 14

1st level should probably be Thug, as it nets you Weapon Finesse for free and gets you Frightening. From there you can alternate between Barbarian and Thug, but you only need 3 levels of Thug in total. When Thug offers Finesse Training at 3rd level select Claws. When Select your Rogue Talent feat pick Weapon Focus Bite. At Barbarian level 2 select your rage power as Lesser Beast Totem. From there prioritize the Beast Totem rages whenever they are offered, and which ever other Rage powers best suits your theme.

Primary Skills: Mobility, Lore: Nature, Perception, Persuasion


Bonus Skill Focus feat: Persuasion
1st- Improved Unarmed Strike
3rd-Extra Rage Power (Animal Fury)
5th-Dazzling Display
7th-Accomplished Sneak Attacker
9th-Piranha Strike
11th-Slashing Grace (Bite)

from here on i guess im open to suggestions.

[KOS]

To be sure i understand it right :
It is a Themed build of a savage crazed berserker half elf fighting unarmed base on Dex.

In that case i would tell you that Crom will laugh at you and throw you out of valhalla.

More seriously i would go half orc strength base with Weapon Focus / Power attack / cornagu smash / Intimidating Prowess / outflank / Dazzling Display / Dreadful Carnage / persuasive / Deceitful / Improved Critical

[Eonwe]

I don't understand why you want go for a dex build either. Strength seems much better and fits the character more imo.

[Selvokaz]

It's a pretty simple really, Rage in Pathfinder adds modifiers directly to your damage, and extra hit points instead of boosting your Con and Str, this means no matter what your damage dealing stat is it goes directly to your output, thus a Dex build overwhelms Str since Dex has more benefits and all the same benefits in this case. Dex Effects AC, Damage, To Hit, Reflex, and Initiative, all these things. I do admit you wont be able to abuse the Dread Carnage line of feats so i need a alternative to that, but everything else seems superior.

[Iry]

Barbarian 4 / Vivisectionist 16.
Take Reckless Aura, Inspire Ferocity, Feral Mutagen, and lots of Extra Rage.
You are basically a frothing murderous honey badger.

[Eonwe]

Gotcha, it makes sense now.

[CHAO$$$]

Originally posted by Lettus:

Themed based on the crazed berserkers of lore, of which some could change into monstrous bears while enraged or at least emulate them, this build aims to do 2 things. Rage often and while doing so fight with animal like ferocity, using claws and teeth.

Classes: Invulnerable Rager archetype Barbarian 17/Thug Rogue archetype 3

Half Elf or Human for this build, we'll use Half Elf

Starting Ability Scores:
Str 10
Dex 16 (all future ability score increases go here from 8th level on.)
Con 14 + 2 from racial ability modifier
Int 13 (+1 at 4th level to bring it to 14)
wis 12
Cha 14

1st level should probably be Thug, as it nets you Weapon Finesse for free and gets you Frightening. From there you can alternate between Barbarian and Thug, but you only need 3 levels of Thug in total. When Thug offers Finesse Training at 3rd level select Claws. When Select your Rogue Talent feat pick Weapon Focus Bite. At Barbarian level 2 select your rage power as Lesser Beast Totem. From there prioritize the Beast Totem rages whenever they are offered, and which ever other Rage powers best suits your theme.

Primary Skills: Mobility, Lore: Nature, Perception, Persuasion


Bonus Skill Focus feat: Persuasion
1st- Improved Unarmed Strike
3rd-Extra Rage Power (Animal Fury)
5th-Dazzling Display
7th-Accomplished Sneak Attacker
9th-Piranha Strike

from here on i guess im open to suggestions.

Aasimar,Tiefling and Elf are the only optimal races.

Your racial modifier is not boosting your highest stat. That ALWAYS means youre losing stat points for no reason.

Con is too high. Con gets worse if
- you play a character with high base hp (namely barb)
- you play a character with instant/swift self healing (namely paladin)

+1 con gets you a 1/12 (1/13th depending on how you wanna look at it) bonus to your total health
+1 con on wizard gets you a bonus of 1/4th of your total health

even 12 con on barb is debatable. More than 12 is too much for sure.

Every character who doesnt use charisma due to his class should dump charisma. I guess you want it for some weird shenanigans with the thug 3rd level thing? Its not worth it. At best it will be a fairly low value debuff (edit: correction, with the thug level 3 you can use demoralize with a certain DC result and fear enemies (still not a fan tho) at a fairly high cost. At higher levels it will simply be resisted due to the "low" charisma bonus.
The best builds arent the ones that do as much stuff as possible. The best builds are as specialized as possible in doing 1 specific thing. Adding dazzling display costs way too much, stat points + feat for basically no payoff.

In this specific case charisma has 0 synergy with barb.

[Selvokaz]

i kind of doubt the frightening/persuasion ability will be resisted do to cha, since its not Cha + character or 1/2 character based DC, but rather Cha + Persuasion Modifier which benefits from Skill Focus's +3 or +6 modifier after 10 ranks, which was one of the other reasons to have it, not to mention Crowd Control is something that non but a few of the melee classes have unless they are using dazzling display as well, so likely paladins and the odd barbarian who intimidating prowess.

[CHAO$$$]

Originally posted by Lettus:

i kind of doubt the frightening/persuasion ability will be resisted do to cha, since its not Cha + character or 1/2 character based DC, but rather Cha + Persuasion Modifier which benefits from Skill Focus's +3 or +6 modifier after 10 ranks, which was one of the other reasons to have it, not to mention Crowd Control is something that non but a few of the melee classes have unless they are using dazzling display as well, so likely paladins and the odd barbarian who intimidating prowess.

yes but you didnt mention picking up any skill foci in your setup, and again the cost you pay to make a fairly mediocre ability somewhat useful is way too high. Especially if you start paying even more into it.
Also it WILL be resisted on hard and unfair by A LOT of dudes.

Its also not CC you cant proc frightening with it. Its just a minor debuff. Please tell me if im missing something here but on paper it looks terrible for what you have to invest.

[Selvokaz]

I forgot to mention Slashing Grace for the Bite attack

[CHAO$$$]

nevermind reread , im blind. Try it out if you want. still not a fan tho :/

Just have a mage for CC, they do it better, they are more consistent. If you slam down 1 grease or 1 Sirrocco you get constant CC checks. at a 1 time investment.

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

Originally posted by Lettus:

i kind of doubt the frightening/persuasion ability will be resisted do to cha, since its not Cha + character or 1/2 character based DC, but rather Cha + Persuasion Modifier which benefits from Skill Focus's +3 or +6 modifier after 10 ranks, which was one of the other reasons to have it, not to mention Crowd Control is something that non but a few of the melee classes have unless they are using dazzling display as well, so likely paladins and the odd barbarian who intimidating prowess.

yes but you didnt mention picking up any skill foci in your setup, and again the cost you pay to make a fairly mediocre ability somewhat useful is way too high. Especially if you start paying even more into it.
Also it WILL be resisted on hard and unfair by A LOT of dudes.

Its also not CC you cant proc frightening with it. Its just a minor debuff. Please tell me if im missing something here but on paper it looks terrible for what you have to invest.

[Selvokaz]

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

Originally posted by Lettus:

i kind of doubt the frightening/persuasion ability will be resisted do to cha, since its not Cha + character or 1/2 character based DC, but rather Cha + Persuasion Modifier which benefits from Skill Focus's +3 or +6 modifier after 10 ranks, which was one of the other reasons to have it, not to mention Crowd Control is something that non but a few of the melee classes have unless they are using dazzling display as well, so likely paladins and the odd barbarian who intimidating prowess.

yes but you didnt mention picking up any skill foci in your setup, and again the cost you pay to make a fairly mediocre ability somewhat useful is way too high. Especially if you start paying even more into it.
Also it WILL be resisted on hard and unfair by A LOT of dudes.

Its also not CC you cant proc frightening with it. Its just a minor debuff. Please tell me if im missing something here but on paper it looks terrible for what you have to invest.

Are telling me you've seen the enemies make a average 38 Will Save? not to mention a 48 Will best case scenario?

[CHAO$$$]

Originally posted by Lettus:

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

yes but you didnt mention picking up any skill foci in your setup, and again the cost you pay to make a fairly mediocre ability somewhat useful is way too high. Especially if you start paying even more into it.
Also it WILL be resisted on hard and unfair by A LOT of dudes.

Its also not CC you cant proc frightening with it. Its just a minor debuff. Please tell me if im missing something here but on paper it looks terrible for what you have to invest.

Are telling me you've seen the enemies make a average 38 Will Save? not to mention a 48 Will best case scenario?

You have to use/hit it twice to proc it for 1 round. And yes 16 will is not that uncommon on unfair even in early midgame. And thats a long time before you hit numbers that high.

Its just a horrible tradeoff overall imo. But try it. If you farm high difficulty enemies with it share the video please.

Nevermind all the enemies that are straightup immune to mind/fear effects.

[Iry]

Thug frighten is quite potent. But I sincerely think you would get more 'savage' by adding in Vivisectionist. You can literally turn into animals (like the Smilodon for 4 Claws, Bite, and Pounce). with each attack potentially sneak attacking (unlike Druid).

Lots of Rage. Lots of Claws/Bites. Lots of dead things.

[Selvokaz]

I see, no I think you're misunderstanding how Frightened/Intimidate works in this situation. The Barbarian only has to beat the targets effective DC (10 + hit dice + Wisdom modifier), and for every 5 points the barbarian beats that DC it increases the duration of the shaken condition, and once the number of rounds is equal to 4 (remember you automatically get +1 to the duration from frightened) that person also becomes frightened. So basically I only need to beat the persons DC by 15 points in order make them frightened, not always easy but definitely doable in one roll.

[Selvokaz]

Originally posted by Iry:

Thug frighten is quite potent. But I sincerely think you would get more 'savage' by adding in Vivisectionist. You can literally turn into animals (like the Smilodon for 4 Claws, Bite, and Pounce). with each attack potentially sneak attacking (unlike Druid).

Lots of Rage. Lots of Claws/Bites. Lots of dead things.

No I definitely agree with you, and that is definitely a good alternative, thank you for the suggestion.