Is Amiri a joke character?

[Gracey Face]

Every one of her personal "quest" type things that I've seen so far involves her demanding she face a "dangerous" (actually fairly weak) monster in personal combat, then rushing it, then getting destroyed by it and calling for help.

Which makes her seem like a joke character, yet otherwise she seems to be being played completely straight. I can't figure it out.

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by Velg:

I don’t see problem. If we’re talking about spoiler territory, then she only killed tribesmen in self-defense after they decided to off her for good. I don’t see what moral issue is with justifying self-defense. Moreover, she kind of atones for that.

Oh lord... I can see where this is going already...

I couldn't beleive that one of your followers, especially one labelled chaotic neutral, would just be a random murdering liar, so I've been looking up her questline.


Let's just get the facts out of the way. You meet Amiri she's threatening to murder a midget for no reason. She lies to you continually. When someone begins explaining the crime that she committed to you Amiri flat out tries to murder him. When her supposed most dear person in the world says she doesn't like how things are going Amiri immediately begins threatening her. By the words of this person, the only tribal you see who is favorable to Amiri, she is prone to violent outbursts. She sees a woman standing next to another woman and immediately murders them without any understanding of what's happening before you fight Armag.


I'm curious where you're getting the idea it was self defence from. All I have seen from any of her dialogue is that she went on a raid and got everyone else killed.


From what I've seen from Tako and Iry, the raid she's on abandon her because she's a liability. The raid she chose to take part in. Is that what you think justifies murder and theft?


Anyway yeah, all I am seeing is that she's a dangerous murdering liar and theif. The kind of person that killing gives you lawful karma in these D&D games. Why would I not execute her if given the chance?

[StonedWerewolf]

When someone begins explaining the crime that she committed to you Amiri flat out tries to murder him

1. She only does this if you let her, as any sort of verbal ‘no, stay calm!’ restrains her.
2. Chieftain is not as much ‘explaining’ anything as he is hurling abuse on player character’s head, even though he forcefully crashed your border with all his armed barbarians. Frankly, if
Moreover, I think I got this straight from her dialogue during her third companion quest. (That’s the very first one featuring Six Bear camp.) IIRC she says this in her finishing rant to Nilak. It is 100% present in her banter in tavern afterwards, though.

She sees a woman standing next to another woman and immediately murders them without any understanding of what's happening before you fight Armag.

Are you referring to the Defaced Sister about to execute Nilak (and maybe also Dugath)? They were confirmed to be fey pawns of Nyrissa by this point – and they have 1. backstabbed you during The Varnhold’s Vanishing, trying to make entire barbarian camp kill you after you’ve spent 3-4 hours helping them, 2. implied to cause Kellid invasion of Rostov and your borderlands. Are you seriously make case on Amiri’s character based from this?
tl;dr: please play through Amiri’s companion quests first, and then express your opinion. It is somewhat clear that you have made some inquiry into her questline, but I assure you that you have somewhat distorted idea of what latter quests look like.

[Gracey Face]

Jesus... So an attempted murder doesn't matter if you're stopped in your eyes? People deserve to die if they're mean?

And you wonder why I'm saying your morality is frightening?


As to the defaced sister, all Amiri saw on the couple of videos I saw is an old woman standing next to a younger one. Now admittedly maybe the Defaced sisters have some kind of distinguishing mark, don't know (problem with being forced to look further ahead in the story to shield myself from bad writing...) but from what you see she just bumrushes and murders and old woman.


Also yes she mentioned it to Nilak later on. Kind of wierdly out of the blue actually which is why I didn't watch that part (she goes from threatening Nilak to spouting a sob story, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ bipolar as ♥♥♥♥).

A thing to note though is that this is the story of a lying murderer with violent tendencies, with nothing to corroborate it. And even if we assume it to be fact, she still ended up murdering people who left her on a raid because she was a liability which is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ heinous. Her death would have been her fault in that instance for getting involved in something she shouldn't have.






She's supposed to be a chaotic neutral honor bound barbarian but is literally the most evil companion you have. That's ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[SIlverblade-T-E]

no she's not evil
her tribe did treat her like crap and DID leave her to die which is enough reason to turn on those who did that

however, yeah the "spurned / downtrodden fem" kind of trope IS over done in this game :/
1 character, would be ok as it is a common problem in OUR world and thus maybe in others, but two (or three counting Linzi, kind of)...that's just over doing it!

simple ugly truth in life is that abuse is NOT about race creed colour or sex, it's because someone views someone else as "weak", an easy victim who isn't likely to be able to fight back, and by victimizing someone who isn't likely to smash their abuser's head into a pulp, the bully can make themself feel "superior".

what bugs me most about Amiri is her voice actor is CRAP for a hard ass barbarian she sounds like a suburban American young woman with zero charisma/grit ! :(
it just sounds pathetic, sigh
try a Glaswegian accent if you want some SCARY

[StonedWerewolf]

No, but I am not arguing that Amiri would have made a great addition to modern society, am I? All I say that your characterization of Amiri as random murdering liar is just incorrect.
I don’t want to pursue this argument further, but there is fine line between man of today killing fellow man for some minor insult and e.g. knight reaching for his sword when he feels his liege was insulted. And this distinction surely doesn’t mean I condone killing people over slights.
also, as I said, I feel you will be better served doing her short personal quests rather than watching videos devoid of context.

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by SIlverblade-T-E:

no she's not evil
her tribe did treat her like cppa and DID leave her to die which is enough reason to turn on those who did that

She absolutely is evil. Her tribe treating her like crap ultimately doesn't matter. What matters is her being left.

But the thing is, SHE CHOSE to GO ON A RAID, a dangerous situation. She was then abandoned because she's a liability, and she murdered them in response. That is a very simple "evil" (by D&D standards) action.

Do you want to know what else she could have done? Survived on her own (hell that will have been what she basically ended up doing anyway). Do you want to know what else she could have done? Not go on the raid in the first place.


She chose to do something to feed her ego and then murdered people to avoid the repercussions. I don't know how you could be more evil, to be frank.

[SIlverblade-T-E]

Originally posted by Velg:

No, but I am not arguing that Amiri would have made a great addition to modern society, am I? All I say that your characterization of Amiri as random murdering liar is just incorrect.
I don’t want to pursue this argument further, but there is fine line between man of today killing fellow man for some minor insult and e.g. knight reaching for his sword when he feels his liege was insulted. And this distinction surely doesn’t mean I condone killing people over slights.
also, as I said, I feel you will be better served doing her short personal quests rather than watching videos devoid of context.

true, "honour" in that sense was important in feudal societies, same with Samurai
as it wasn't just about pride but about power and control, and vassals had duties to defend that.
they weren't 21st century Republics with effective legal and polcie systems so things were a lot more complex than people might believe simply to maintain order without a well run legal and political system
sure it could be bad, but chaos is even worse.

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by Velg:

No, but I am not arguing that Amiri would have made a great addition to modern society, am I? All I say that your characterization of Amiri as random murdering liar is just incorrect.
I don’t want to pursue this argument further, but there is fine line between man of today killing fellow man for some minor insult and e.g. knight reaching for his sword when he feels his liege was insulted. And this distinction surely doesn’t mean I condone killing people over slights.
also, as I said, I feel you will be better served doing her short personal quests rather than watching videos devoid of context.

She didn't "defend her leige" though, she headbutted and then tries to stab/stabs a guy because the guy says mean things about her and is in the process of explaining her transgressions.


It's not even close to the same thing.



Also no, I wouldn't be better served. I understand what you mean, but to me running into terrible writing like this is the kind of thing that makes me just abandon games (I mean hell I stopped playing PoE with 80 hours of gameplay because the enemies weren't a convincing threat for instance). Being told about it beforehand lets me not be as frustrated when I eventually run into it. Whole reason why I made this post was because I didnt want Amiri's questline to be the thing that stops me playing since otherwise this game is okay.

[SIlverblade-T-E]

Originally posted by Bert Sampsen:

Originally posted by SIlverblade-T-E:

no she's not evil
her tribe did treat her like cppa and DID leave her to die which is enough reason to turn on those who did that

She absolutely is evil. Her tribe treating her like crap ultimately doesn't matter. What matters is her being left.

But the thing is, SHE CHOSE to GO ON A RAID, a dangerous situation. She was then abandoned because she's a liability, and she murdered them in response. That is a very simple "evil" (by D&D standards) action.

Do you want to know what else she could have done? Survived on her own (hell that will have been what she basically ended up doing anyway). Do you want to know what else she could have done? Not go on the raid in the first place.


She chose to do something to feed her ego and then murdered people to avoid the repercussions. I don't know how you could be more evil, to be frank.

no, "Evil" would be going in and murdering their FAMILIES, especially children
those gits left her out there to die, that is NOTHING like sentencing her to exile by the chieftain in front of the tribe for proven wrongful deeds

being tossed out into the Wild or out of a tribe without being forthright, public and honest is NOT a minor thing you know, that's a sly, dirty cowardly death sentence.

bad/wrong/poor choice is nothing like "evil".

if you plan to kill 6 people who tried ot kill you and you sneaked up on them when they were asleep, well that is just SMART not evil !
jeesh, only a moron or someone at the end of their rope wanting to die would try and attack them mano-e-mano in that situation.

after having dealt with particularly heinous people in RL, and lots of screwed up ones or ones who had to pick from a short list of bad choices when things went to hell on them...I do know the difference.
You screw someone over unexpectedly, especially when the person is already feeling hard done by and not grown into wisdom, they will react poorly and bad things are likely to happen.
"Evil" is something else entirely and VASTLY worse.

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by SIlverblade-T-E:

...

"Murder isn't evil as long as you kill them in thier sleep, it's smart!"



♥♥♥♥♥♥♥............. Just............ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.



Seriously I am laughing my ass off at this though. The ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid ♥♥♥♥ people say on the internet some times, lmfao.


Oh and ♥♥♥♥ me, I was laughing that much I missed the "I HAVE SEEN TRUE EVIL!!! I KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!" shtick at the end of your post. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ you're going to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ kill me if you carry on like that :D.

Jesus, what is your mental image of yourself? Hell I'm getting the impression you see yourself as some kind of grizzled worldtraveller, right? I mean hell, who else says they've seen enough evil to have an innate personal understanding of it. :D You're still living with your parents though, right?

[JODEGAFUN]

Originally posted by Bert Sampsen:

Originally posted by TaKoDancer:

i've never had her get 'destroyed' by the 1st 2 things she demands to fight

She died in three hits to the giant boar or whatever it was she fought when I took her to it, and this was with her geared up. This happened over three reloads. She died in 4 hits (2 rounds) to the hodag or whatever the hell it's called that she asks to fight next, this is over two reloads.


She didnt hit either once with her ♥♥♥♥ sword, despite me giving her focus on it and the rage stance that gives +1 to hit and me giving her a +2STR belt.


That's destroyed by my books. Of course luck of the "dice" and all that.

Really this swort sucks, even if you do all her quest and get a better one you have better choice of some 3X crit two hand wapons which lead that she becomes 1 crit one kill meele monster. That swort is crap.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Iry:

HOWEVER!

At first glance, Amiri is a tough warrior icon who doesn't want to put up with the misogynistic bull of her old tribe. And that's justified by the fact that we see her old tribe are indeed total jerks and feel exactly that way about women. They basically kick the puppy when they tell her to go back to the womyns tent.

But wait.

We also discover Amiri is a Level 1 character when you meet her and the average level of the Barbarians are around 6-8. So she really wasn't a strong fighter, and the barbarians around her knew it and mocked her openly by calling her the "Soft Chieftan." This is further supported by the Tuskgutter quest which is extremely likely to stomp Amiri into the ground if you do it right when you are offered the quest (and Amiri certainly acts like you're going to do it right away). Also the way Armag beats her like a red-headed stepchild.

So she's a strong female icon, but secretly lying and completely mistaken about her strength relative to the people she was raised with. And that seems a little too suspicious, Owlcat.

At least she gets an awesome scene if she sacrifices herself in the end.

I don't get why people say Tuskgutter is too strong for her. I usually take on that quest around level 3 or 4, and she seems to be able to handle it just fine. There have been times where she misses a lot, but I just pop her RAGE to give her a bonus to attack rolls.

This might be because I'm playing a custom version of Story difficulty, though.


But as for them calling her the "soft" chieftain, you're misinterpreting the meaning behind their words. The term "soft" has also been used by society to refer to effeminate traits, since the beliefs at the time where that masculinity embodied aggression and strength, while femininity embodied gentleness and vulnerability. By calling her a "soft" chieftain, they were basically calling her a "woman chief."


But unless she lied to me about single handedly managing to survive an encounter with Frost Giants, and then come back and slaughter the hunters that were trying to have her killed I think the idea of her being weaker than the other barbarians might just be a factor of gameplay mechanics, rather than an actual representation of her strength.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Bert Sampsen:

Also yes she mentioned it to Nilak later on. Kind of wierdly out of the blue actually which is why I didn't watch that part (she goes from threatening Nilak to spouting a sob story, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ bipolar as ♥♥♥♥).

That's actually what Chaotic Neutral is supposed to be. The way I've read the alignment description in previous games, Chaotic Neutral is usually applied to madmen, as well as creatures of pure chaos (such as the plane of Limbo).

When a Chaotic Good character murders somebody in cold blood, they usually do it because it serves the greater good in the end, even if the courts may not agree with it.

When a Chaotic Evil character murders somebody in cold blood, they do it because they derive some form of pleasure, or personal gain out of it.


When a Chaotic Neutral character murders somebody in cold blood, their reason could be anything from trying to relieve years of pent up aggression towards some other problem, to receiving a divine message seared into a piece of bread. They are unpredictable sociopaths, and there is a very good reason why most people don't like having them around.

[SIlverblade-T-E]

Hercules, in the actual Greek myths (not Hollywood) was kind of CN as he smashed folk caus he was like...PO'd
then again Hera's plots etc didn't help.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by SIlverblade-T-E:

Hercules, in the actual Greek myths (not Hollywood) was kind of CN as he smashed folk caus he was like...PO'd
then again Hera's plots etc didn't help.

It was because of Hera's plots that he did that. She cursed him with murderous rage. Hercules was deeply distraught over his outbursts, since they prompted him to kill not only his first family, but also his best friend.