Magic questions : questions about magic

[Zerathule]

I'm waiting with anticipation the release of this game, being quite a fan of the PNP rpg ...
I've tried to find informations about magic system, but actually not a lot came out, so here are my questions :)
1) How is dealt expensive components ? Casting some spells can be VERY expensive ... are we going to need to buy in advance the components ? or will we immediatly spend the gold to cast the spell ? or did they got rid of components altogether ? (if such is the case, do sorcerers get a feat to compensate the eschew component feat ?)
2) How is long duration/permanent spells handled ? (and is there permanency spell ?) spells like animate dead is permanent, control undead or dominate lasts for days. How is that handled and can we recast regularly those spells to keep a permanent pet ?
3) Are "calling" spells in ? things like planar binding/planar ally ?
4) Can you get an improved familiar ? can you give your familiar some magic items ?(notably a wand) And same for animal companions, they can keep up at higher level only if you equip them properly, can you get them barding, belts of strength, etc ...
5) What about teleport and planar travel spells ? are they in ? are the create demiplane spells in the game ?

That's quite a lot of questions, hopefully, some Owlcat staff or a beta player will be able to answer :)

[Zerathule]

A shameless bump :) (won't do it twice)
I'm hoping the game will offer possibilities that are in Pathfinder but rarely used because it would slow down the game when playing pen and paper (having an army of undead/dominated would have turns take hours)
As the game takes us to level 20, i really hope spellcasters are not just "blasters with an attitude" but have really a maximum of possibilities offered by pathfinder setting and rules :)

[thainen]

These are some complicated questions. I must admit that I can't give a satisfying answer to most of them. I have forwarded it to our designers, but can't promise they'll find time to answer, being busy finishing the game. Sorry.
As far as I know, Permanency isn't in the game. Neither are the spells that deal with planes.

[kreivi]

I know that atleast some permanency is in the spells (like some blind or raise dead spells are permanent untill one or other way changed [like killing that person again])

What I think is: in most spells you do not need gold or expensive things. But let's say restoring ancient artifact or so you need first person who can do it and second have all things (usually not only one but multiple "pieces") needed for it (so it is not just "I have scroll so I start making powerfull items by copying it for my spell book").

[Zerathule]

Thanks Thainen :)
Kreivi, I'm talking about spells with expensive components, some of which are pretty common :
Animate dead requires 25 gold per hit die of undead you want to create (and the spell is permanent.)
Stoneskin is 250 gold per cast. (a pretty comon spell in every D&D like game)
Restoration is 100 gold and 1000 if you want to restore permanent level loss.
Raise dead is 5000 (and leaves you with 2 perment level drain, so you need two casts of restoration at 1000 gold each)
I'm going here with pretty standard spells.
I can see pros and cons of lifting gold costs ... but i'm curious to see what will be the impact in the gameplay.
Also regarding the duration of spells, I'm talking about spells that can last for multiple days (dominate or control undead comes to min mind), that are basically game-changers.
I know there are a few trolls in the game that are above average in power, but can easyly be dominated. In the PnP game, you can clearly keep them to your side untill they die, which they wont as they can regenerate ... that's the quite of things you can do in Pathfinder, and hope we can do the same with this game :)

[thainen]

I've got an answer from the game designers team!

1. Some expensive components will be in the game, but mostly with the spells we really want to limit. Raise Dead, Stoneskin will have expensive components, for example. Focus components are ignored. Eschew allows only avoiding the non-expensive ones, the ones that we ignore already.
2. There are a lot of permanent effects, like blindness/curse/insanity. On lowest difficulties they are still removed after rest, but on normal and higher you will need to dispel them or to live with them. This was changed for spells that basically provide you with additional members of the party for a long time - dominate, animate dead have significantly shorter duration. Animate Dead and Create Undead now basically summon creatures for minutes, but those creatures are more powerful and said spells do not require material components.
3. No
4. No
5. No

[Zerathule]

Thank you very much for such a quick answer, and thank the designers who took their time on their lunch brake to give you those answers :)
As a quick followup :
Actually, my point on eschew components was that i assumed non expensive components where not required. It means that sorcerers who are supposed to get that feat at level 1 are getting "robbed" of a feat ... are they getting another one instead ?

I'm not surprised to the answers you provided to the other questions.
I'm dissapointed for the lack of inventory for animal companions.
ACs are great at low level, even overpowered in some cases, but they'll lag behind in power if you dont give them some equipment to improve their fighting prowess. I can undestand the oversigh, but really, i hope you'll implement that in later update or a V2.
As for the other points, I hope some day you'll consider going "true to pathfinder" in regards to mid to high level magic.
Dominate monster is a level 9 spell. At level 3 you have suggestion that enables you to turn an ennemy into an ally (you suggest him he should help you overturn his master and instead have you as his ruler. he'll help you out for the next "level" hours. Dominate last for days, because not only do you get one less ennemy, one more ally for a particular battle, but he'll be with you for the next weeks ... and by recasting the spell, it could be for years. What's the point of casting a level 9 spell if you can do basically the same with a level 3 spell (and arguably, a level 1 charm person spell)
The power of high level casters, especially wizards, is not only what they can do on a battlefield. Their real power is in their capacity to change the rules. Some spells with a single cast, could enable a wizard to clear up a whole dungeon (Magic Jar for exemple).
And note i've mentioned only "core spells", i'm not even talking about wierd spells that could be used for really devious stuff.

When the big bad evil guy in a video game is a caster, it's assumed he built his army of undeads, demons etc ... through the usage of dark magics.
Why wouldnt a player character be able to do the same ? in the game rules, a PC can do the same ! (and as players can be much more ruthless than a premade villain in an adventure path, potentially they can do much more).
I understand that from a game design point of view it can be really complicated, but it's really things like that who could bring so much more to a CRPG.
Hopefully, if you go for a sequel, magic usage will not be thought only as a combat/tactical thing, but will have the capacity to bring up lots of non combat options.

I'm looking forward to try out that game, and i'm pretty sure i'll like it, i just hope for one day a game that enables you to think at a higher level than just bashing mobs.

[thainen]

Originally posted by Zerathule:

Actually, my point on eschew components was that i assumed non expensive components where not required. It means that sorcerers who are supposed to get that feat at level 1 are getting "robbed" of a feat ... are they getting another one instead ?

They are getting a bonus magical feat (focus/metamagic/etc) instead. Wizards get the same instead of scribe scroll.

[Zerathule]

That's very nice :)
2 monthes to go before i can start to build my kingdom :)

[Sammy]

Does the game have any "psychic" spellcaster classes, mind powers and such?

[Zerathule]

From the list of class provided, it doesnt seem so.
Psychic classes in pathfinder where a much later addition. As such, they're not in the "favourite class list" of most pathfinder fans.
There are a lot of missing classes i can think of before adding the Occultist, psychist, spiritualist, mesmerist, medium and kineticist.

[Zerathule]

And besides, their mechanics are very complex, and appart from "spell casting" (that have some specific rules) their mechanics would require a full implementation of new features.
I'd rather have them go for summoner first :)
(I always dreamed to play a synthesist summoner, but my GMs always banned the class and the archetype ... as this is a computer game, being some crazy half elf lunatic in a "eve evangelion" battlesuit, would not spoil the game for anyone ^^)

[GrandMajora]

With the exception of D&D Online, I don't think I've ever seen a D&D / Pathfinder video game that actually required material components. They just kind of let you cast the spells as long as you have the spell slot available, or in DDO's case, they give you a mana pool in place of spell slots to draw from.

[Zerathule]

Old school video games had components. Everquest required components for quite a lot of spells, and later WoW had some components for long term buffs (and TPs also i think).
I guess the goal is to limit usage of the most powerfull spells in game.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Zerathule:

Old school video games had components. Everquest required components for quite a lot of spells, and later WoW had some components for long term buffs (and TPs also i think).
I guess the goal is to limit usage of the most powerfull spells in game.

I'm talking about D&D and Pathfinder specifically. And I've been playing video games since the days of the NES and Turn Dial television sets.

;)

[Shinno]

I have a magic question.) Does the weather affects spells like call lightning?