Meet Seelah, the Paizo iconic character.

[Shinno]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/owlcatgames/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/posts/2764136

[Peelsepuuppi]

Originally posted by Jeysie:

Originally posted by lemurs2:

Wha? What was wrong with Octavia? Her, Linzi and Jubilost were among my favorite characters.

She's a woman who enjoys sex and is up front about it, therefore her existence is magically "SJW" even if the game does literally zero feminist preaching about it.

Same as how Seelah existing as a paladin wearing normal expected practical paladin armor is magically "SJW" solely because she's black and a she, again, even if her story does literally zero preaching about it.

Basically, the problem is some people irrationally dislike seeing minorities exist as normal people versus as their imaginary stereotypes and myths.

There's something curious about this though. Female characters existed, minority characters have existed and people didn't complain about them nearly as much as they do now. No one really complained that Dragon Age: Origins had two bisexual characters when the game was new.

So why are people complaining now? It's as if something has made people jump up to conclusions about these characters, something that wasn't very prominent over a decade ago.

Something changed in how I view these things too. Before I didn't really even pay attention to a character's race, I just played the game. Yet these days for some weird reason I notice constantly, my attitude towards minorities and women hasn't really changed so what else could it be?

[Citronvand]

Originally posted by ToveriJuri:

Female characters existed, minority characters have existed and people didn't complain about them nearly as much as they do now.

Because there's a difference between writing a story/character for the sake of being a good story/character and writing it because you want to shove your agenda down the players' throat. Sadly, I find the latter much more prevalent these days. For example Baldur's Gate Siege of Dragonspear where they changed existing characters just to push their agenda and where the writer openly admitted she "wanted to write many social justice warrior games in the future":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSzZ9jIl7pY

Of course there are games that handles these topics much better, like Technobabylon. In that game the gay dude is actually my favorite. There's a even a trans which I didn't know about until after I finished it because the character doesn't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ say it 2 minutes after you meet her/him. It never comes up unless if you ask some very specific questions because for the story it didn't matter whether the character was trans or not.

In the case with this game I think Owlcat has handled the characters well (Haven't finished the game yet), probably because they are russians since they don't seem to care about adding forced diversity and whatnot like we do in the west.

[Peelsepuuppi]

Originally posted by Citronvand:

Originally posted by ToveriJuri:

Female characters existed, minority characters have existed and people didn't complain about them nearly as much as they do now.

Because there's a difference between writing a story/character for the sake of being a good story/character and writing it because you want to shove your agenda down the players' throat. Sadly, I find the latter much more prevalent these days. For example Baldur's Gate Siege of Dragonspear where they changed existing characters just to push their agenda and where the writer openly admitted she "wanted to write many social justice warrior games in the future":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSzZ9jIl7pY

Of course there are games that handles these topics much better, like Technobabylon. In that game the gay dude is actually my favorite. There's a even a trans which I didn't know about until after I finished it because the character doesn't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ say it 2 minutes after you meet her/him. It never comes up unless if you ask some very specific questions because for the story it didn't matter whether the character was trans or not.

In the case with this game I think Owlcat has handled the characters well (Haven't finished the game yet), probably because they are russians since they don't seem to care about adding forced diversity and whatnot like we do in the west.

You probably just hate women and minorities.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Swordman_Red:

Also standart form of a breastplate usually gives more free space for stomach not only because users have to get their beer bellies into it. It's lowers center of weight of the plate and guides mre blows up, which is comparatively safer.

"Beer bellies" - So I guess we're just going to ignore the fact that heavy armor was expensive as hell, and most people wearing it were employed by the military? Or that you needed to be in pretty good condition to even move around in the darn thing?

Actually, RPG's have woefully downplayed the effectiveness of real life armor. The truth is that even something as simple as chain mail was sturdy enough to prevent you from being stabbed or slashed. Though getting hit would still hurt, not unlike how a bullet proof vest stops the bullet from penetrating you, but you still feel the impact.

Unless you're some sort of demi good, I can't imagine most humans possessing enough brute strength to chop or stab their way through a solid sheet of well tempered steel. Most likely situation, your blade would harmlessly bounce off an opponent in plate mail, unless you specifically aimed for a weak spot. And even then, they've probably reinforced themselves with chain mail and a padded vest underneath.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Jeysie:

Originally posted by lemurs2:

Wha? What was wrong with Octavia? Her, Linzi and Jubilost were among my favorite characters.

She's a woman who enjoys sex and is up front about it, therefore her existence is magically "SJW" even if the game does literally zero feminist preaching about it.

Same as how Seelah existing as a paladin wearing normal expected practical paladin armor is magically "SJW" solely because she's black and a she, again, even if her story does literally zero preaching about it.

Basically, the problem is some people irrationally dislike seeing minorities exist as normal people versus as their imaginary stereotypes and myths.

Amiri's personal story in Kingmaker was nothing but feminist preaching. Coming from a tribe that firmly believed women couldn't be anything more than stay at home moms, and her going to desperate lengths to prove otherwise.

When it comes to writing character sexuality, I tend to go into it with the mindset that everybody in the setting is bisexual. That way, I can introduce an organically formed romance between any characters in the story, rather than trying to forcefully ship them with one gender or the other.

[Aria Athena]

Originally posted by ToveriJuri:

You probably just hate women and minorities.

Like a true gamer.

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

As for the preaching, Amiri's personal story was nothing but feminist preaching, and trying to show everyone that a woman could be a great warrior, too.

It's not feminist preaching when you are actually oppressed in your society. She was very insecure after the events with her tribe. She was trying very hard to prove not only to you, but to herself also, that she is a great warrior, probably from fear of history repeater herself, all while giving silly excuse and trying to hide it. She desperately needed someone to acknowledge her skills.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Aria Athena:

It's not feminist preaching when you are actually oppressed in your society. She was very insecure after the events with her tribe. She was trying very hard to prove not only to you, but to herself also, that she is a great warrior, probably from fear of history repeater herself, all while giving silly excuse and trying to hide it. She desperately needed someone to acknowledge her.

Yes, like a feminist. That life of oppression was over and done with the second Amiri chose to leave her tribe. Nobody in the Stolen Lands treated her like that. Not even the rest of the Barbarian tribes.

In fact, they openly mock the Three Bears for their misogyny, saying things like "Isn't that the tribe who are scared their balls will fall off if a woman picks up a sword?"

Hell, you can even give her the position of GENERAL for your entire army. If that's not a sign of acknowledgement, I don't know what is.

The only mistreatment that Amiri receives after signing on with the expedition stem from her projecting her insecurities onto others. She immediately becomes defensive when you pay her a compliment about how great of a fighter she is. Very reminiscent to an angry feminist who is just looking for an excuse to lash out at men.

[Master]

Looks like mentioning "SJW" made the Biodrones come out.

Keep your SJWist religion out of RPGs okay.

I actually liked Amari funny trope character, basically a dumb as a rock, barbarian but a girl.

Octavia and Regongar can die in a fire though. Also logically it doesn't make any sense how Octavia can be a good alignment if you think about it she should be CE or CN.

[Aria Athena]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Yes, like a feminist. That life of oppression was over and done with the second Amiri chose to leave her tribe. Nobody in the Stolen Lands treated her like that. Not even the rest of the Barbarian tribes.

Her mental scars didn't heal the moment she left, which she also didn't do amicably. Hell, her whole quest is a not very subtle metaphor of her past hunting her and how she needs to put it to rest, and the sword she can barely hold, a burden she has to carry around and can't get rid off. It's a boring quest, but actually decently written.

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

The only mistreatment that Amiri receives after signing on with the expedition stem from her projecting her insecurities onto others. She immediately becomes defensive when you pay her a compliment about how great of a fighter she is. Very reminiscent to an angry feminist who is just looking for an excuse to lash out at men.

It's very reminiscent of an insecure, betrayed and oppressed for most of their life person. These things have lasting effects. She is probably the least strong and independent companion when you meet her. She doesn't lash out at men, she lashes out at everyone.

[Jeysie]

Originally posted by ToveriJuri:

There's something curious about this though. Female characters existed, minority characters have existed and people didn't complain about them nearly as much as they do now. No one really complained that Dragon Age: Origins had two bisexual characters when the game was new.

So why are people complaining now? It's as if something has made people jump up to conclusions about these characters, something that wasn't very prominent over a decade ago.

I honestly don't know, since I noticed that oddity myself and commented on it to someone the other day.

Back in the 80s and 90s when I was growing up, there were non-white characters all over the place in media and nobody cared. There were multiple TV series like Fresh Prince, the Jeffersons, Family Matters, that had mostly-black casts, and nobody cared.

Now suddenly a non-white character exists and suddenly everyone's screaming "SJW! PANDERING! SHOVING DOWN MY THROAT" at the top of their lungs. It's like everyone caught some strange insanity disease out of nowhere in the past twenty years. I don't get it.

And yeah, anyone trying to falsely claim it's due to "preaching about it" is tripping balls, because even when in this case there's zero preaching about race or gender, people are still screaming how "SJW" it is.

Like over in some places like Codex people are being virulently and explicitly racist. it's wackjob.

Originally posted by Aria Athena:

Her mental scars didn't heal the moment she left, which she also didn't do amicably. Hell, her whole quest is a not very subtle metaphor of her past hunting her and how she needs to put it to rest, and the sword she can barely hold, a burden she has to carry around and can't get rid off. It's a boring quest, but actually decently written.

This basically.

I'd also add on to your commentary against the complainers that Amiri's personal quest came from Paizo themselves, and Paizo wrote Amiri back in the mid-00s.

[Peelsepuuppi]

Originally posted by Jeysie:

I honestly don't know, since I noticed that oddity myself and commented on it to someone the other day.

Back in the 80s and 90s when I was growing up, there were non-white characters all over the place in media and nobody cared. There were multiple TV series like Fresh Prince, the Jeffersons, Family Matters, that had mostly-black casts, and nobody cared.

Now suddenly a non-white character exists and suddenly everyone's screaming "SJW! PANDERING! SHOVING DOWN MY THROAT" at the top of their lungs. It's like everyone caught some strange insanity disease out of nowhere in the past twenty years. I don't get it.

And yeah, anyone trying to falsely claim it's due to "preaching about it" is tripping balls, because even when in this case there's zero preaching about race or gender, people are still screaming how "SJW" it is.

Like over in some places like Codex people are being virulently and explicitly racist. it's wackjob.

Ok let me be less candid about it. It is partially because of the preaching specifically because of the political climate. This game doesn't have to be preaching about, but because the conversation about the topic borders insanity these days people are far more aware of it both positively and negatively.

Like I said I didn't pay attention to race or gender nearly as much as I do these days and it's involuntary at this point. Some people are ridiculous to the point of SJW essentially becoming an equivalent of an eldritch horror in their head that is slowly morphing reality around them. They are extremely sensitive to the issue and scream about SJW boogeymen everywhere.

I never used to question why a character was of certain race or gender, now I do. It doesn't stop me from playing or enjoying something I like, It just makes me go "Hmm" for couple of seconds where as before it didn't register any reaction. I don't like this new development in myself, but feels unavoidable at this point.

[Master]

Once you become aware of reality it is hard to turn it off. Unless you want to be willfully ignorant by indoctrinating yourself in the religion of SJWism and equality.

Denying a problem exists will only exacerbate it.

It really causes one to ponder...

[Swordman_Red]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Swordman_Red:

Also standart form of a breastplate usually gives more free space for stomach not only because users have to get their beer bellies into it. It's lowers center of weight of the plate and guides mre blows up, which is comparatively safer.

"Beer bellies" - So I guess we're just going to ignore the fact that heavy armor was expensive as hell, and most people wearing it were employed by the military? Or that you needed to be in pretty good condition to even move around in the darn thing?

Actually, RPG's have woefully downplayed the effectiveness of real life armor. The truth is that even something as simple as chain mail was sturdy enough to prevent you from being stabbed or slashed. Though getting hit would still hurt, not unlike how a bullet proof vest stops the bullet from penetrating you, but you still feel the impact.

Unless you're some sort of demi good, I can't imagine most humans possessing enough brute strength to chop or stab their way through a solid sheet of well tempered steel. Most likely situation, your blade would harmlessly bounce off an opponent in plate mail, unless you specifically aimed for a weak spot. And even then, they've probably reinforced themselves with chain mail and a padded vest underneath.

It was not that expensive as you think at XV-XVI c. And having normal physical capabilities of a grown man is quite enough to wear even some of the most heaviest suites. Hovewer normal physical build of a fighter includes a certain amount of fat, hence most of them did not look like a bodybuilders at all. Add here not optimized diet, age dependent weight gains. So yeah, beer bellies. I dont understand why you are so opposed t the idea, since slightly fat belly belly, in fact, does not defines you fighting capability that much.
Also you wouldn't like being stabbed with anything bigger than knife while wearing chainmail, stuff won't even protect you from arrows that well.
However i like how DnD makes armor work, best system in my opinion, with next second being Dark Eye.

[Notabot187]

Chainmail worked pretty good against sword stabs and arrows untill the points were reengineered. The bodkin arrow could, but a broad head couldn't.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Jeysie:

Back in the 80s and 90s when I was growing up, there were non-white characters all over the place in media and nobody cared. There were multiple TV series like Fresh Prince, the Jeffersons, Family Matters, that had mostly-black casts, and nobody cared.

Now suddenly a non-white character exists and suddenly everyone's screaming "SJW! PANDERING! SHOVING DOWN MY THROAT" at the top of their lungs. It's like everyone caught some strange insanity disease out of nowhere in the past twenty years. I don't get it.

I've said this before about the comic book industry, and I'll say it again here: "Make more diverse characters, don't make more characters diverse."

The reason why people are upset, is because the creators are FORCING diversity into the situation for absolutely no reason other than to increase the chance of sales and turn a bigger profit. They are sacrificing integrity for ad revenue, which only serves to make them look shallow and harm their overall reputation.

Nick Fury has always been depicted as white in the comics, but then for no reason whatsoever, they changed him to black for the movies, and now he appears as such in the cartoons and comics. Same thing happened with the most recent Fantastic Four movie, where they changed Johnny Storm and his father to black people, but left Susan (his biological sister) a white woman.

The reason why Miles Morales is accepted as a black Spiderman, is because he is his own completely independent character. He may have stepped in to fill the shoes left by Peter Parker's death, but he is NOT supposed to be Peter Parker.

Warmachine is not a black Tony Stark, he's just a black guy who happens to have access to his own suit of Iron Man armor.

The reason why people are angry about the new Green Lantern being a young minority girl, is because of the absolute BS they used for her origin story. Namely the fact that she HACKED the Green Lantern corp. personel files with her home laptop, added her own profile to the registry, and stole a lantern ring for herself. Then when people tried to chastise her for it, THEY were depicted as being in the wrong.

I'm sorry, but the Green Lantern corp. are not super heroes, they're an intergalactic peace keeping force, who wield the most powerful weapons in the universe. What this girl did was basically steal a police officer's badge and gun, before taking to the streets to dispense vigilante justice. You're ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ right people are going to complain about that. And if her parents don't immediately give her the belt, then she needs to be taken away by Child Protective Services, because they are clearly too neglectful to keep her!