Build advice for a NOT Paladin

[Lersayil]

Need some advice on something that looks like a paladin, quacks like a paladin and tastes like a paladin, but is actually not a paladin.

Basically i want to play a paladin but have neither the will to play Lawful Good, neither the confidence i could keep it if i did.

The basic conept would be: heavy armor, greatsword / scythe, melee dps with self buffs, LN or LE Aasimar. No spells that require DC rolls. Basically a divine gish who is THE LAW.

I've considered Inquisitor and Crusader. Inquisitor needs a lot of patching in the form of feats to make the above work so not sure its worth it. While Crusader seems to stay too castery in higher levels and picking a generic cleric with a 1 dip in Fighter seem to give a lot of the feats i would pick up anyways?

Any thoughts? I would welcome some input before settling on a sub-optimal build for the RP.

[corisai]

Inquisitor. 9th level cleric spells is a bit too much for a Paladin equivalent. :)

[OnlyOffensive]

you cant be "like" paladin without divine powers and smite evil, those are their feature. Just pick any two-handed fighter or inquisitor i guess?

inquisitor has judgements and free teamwork feats that work on its own, so his feats are covered good enough. Inquisitor also has unique spells, lithanies i think? They are kinda useless from what i've seen, but maybe there are some good one on high levels.

Crusaders spell progression stops on level 6 i think.

[raubrey]

I just want to say I love your post (the first part). Subscribed to see what you come up with. :)

[corisai]

Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:

you cant be "like" paladin without divine powers and smite evil, those are their feature. Just pick any two-handed fighter or inquisitor i guess?

Inquisitor Judgements are nice equivalent for a smite.

[OnlyOffensive]

yea i've added it. He also has bane weapon. A bit puzzling how it actually works, since you dont choose bane type. I guess it just gives you +2 on everything while active.

[Drake]

Concerning the crusader. Cleric with one level of fighter can't get weapon specilization and advanced fighter feats. A crusader can (less than a warrior, but still more than any cleric). A crusader is basically what you want to pick if you want to have a fighter/cleric. You could still pick one level of fighter to get basic feats, so that you don't have to pick them as crusader feats (like heavy armor).
The only issue I have with the crusader is not the crusader but the war domain. In pnp the greater war domain feat is choosing whatever combat feat you want (if you fit the req) for any number of round equal to your cleric level (and you can change the feat each round, while fighting). It lets you do crazy stuff because you don't have to pick improved feats, you just can switch on the fly depending on what you need (like cleaving finish, improved sunder, blind fight etc.).
As it is now, the weapon master feat ingame lets you pick only one feat permanently (it's one extra combat feat, but it defeats the purpose of the war domain).

[Kommissar K]

Why would playing an inquisitor and taking a one level dip in fighter not do this for you?

That gets you the armor + weapon proficiencies, plus you get the divine bent for whatever deity you want, a pretty decent buffing based spell list.

Only real "issue" is its not a full BaB class, but Judgment + Bane makes up for that.

Plus, I'd take Stalwart (fort/will evasion) over getting +Cha to saves.

[OnlyOffensive]

inquisitor seems most close to paladins purpose, both are zealots of their deities.

[Fendelphi]

Inquisitor with a small splash in Fighter(heavy armor, martial weapon, feats) and Vivi(Mutagen, sneak attack). Would also fit either LN or LE(you dont shy away from a little "enhancement" to carry out "THE LAW").

For a smooth early game, it might be best to start as Fighter(to get feats, armor and weapons), then Vivi(great damage amplifier) and then finish in Inquisitor.


In the current game, you will rarely reach level 20, so best to try and aim for a 16 build(with anything else just being a bonus).
Inquisitor does not have anything particular great at level 20 anyway(IMO, since it would require DC rolls).

[HeLLfire]

Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:

you cant be "like" paladin without divine powers and smite evil, those are their feature. Just pick any two-handed fighter or inquisitor i guess?

inquisitor has judgements and free teamwork feats that work on its own, so his feats are covered good enough. Inquisitor also has unique spells, lithanies i think? They are kinda useless from what i've seen, but maybe there are some good one on high levels.

Crusaders spell progression stops on level 6 i think.

Crusaders gets full spell level progression, except they get one less spell per level compared to regular clerics.

The problem with any of those is the BAB. None of them get full BAB, and for me that's painful.

But if you're gonna go heavy on the spells, a Crusader would fit nicely as you basically remove some spells for martial feats.

Inquisitors should work fine too - they get spontanious casting, less spells known and only lv6 spells in the end, but they get many other nice abilities to compensate. Gorum perhaps?

[CHAO$$$]

Btw there is a scroll in the game that you can buy in the capital (3K gold i think? really not that much once youre out of the early game). That allows you to reset your alignment back to what you started with.

There is no replacement for Paladin. Nothing else really offers the same things that paladin does. Flame warden/thunder ranger for glowy weapons and max BAB. All suggestions made in this thread dont get full BAB and as such are kinda bad at hitting things.

Monks are lawful and get neat selfbuffs but 2H is highly discouraged.

Just roll a paladin and keep one of the scrolls on hand for when you need them. Pally is great. Pally is special. Nothing is quite like it.

edit: just checked.. scroll of atonement 3600 gold (basically nothing.) 99 on offer from arsinoe (vendor in your capital, slightly to the right)

[Lersayil]

Originally posted by Kommissar K:

Why would playing an inquisitor and taking a one level dip in fighter not do this for you?

That gets you the armor + weapon proficiencies, plus you get the divine bent for whatever deity you want, a pretty decent buffing based spell list.

Only real "issue" is its not a full BaB class, but Judgment + Bane makes up for that.

Actually i discarded that idea early on because I thought i would be missing out on Greater Bane and with True Judgment... but reading up on it, it doesn't really seem to be worth it and i was totally remembering greater bane level wrong. Also doesn't seem to be in the game?

Anyways, nice catch. It would also free up my deity selection since i'd get the GS from the martial weapons feat.

Originally posted by HeLLfire:

Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:

you cant be "like" paladin without divine powers and smite evil, those are their feature. Just pick any two-handed fighter or inquisitor i guess?

inquisitor has judgements and free teamwork feats that work on its own, so his feats are covered good enough. Inquisitor also has unique spells, lithanies i think? They are kinda useless from what i've seen, but maybe there are some good one on high levels.

Crusaders spell progression stops on level 6 i think.

Crusaders gets full spell level progression, except they get one less spell per level compared to regular clerics.

The problem with any of those is the BAB. None of them get full BAB, and for me that's painful.

But if you're gonna go heavy on the spells, a Crusader would fit nicely as you basically remove some spells for martial feats.

Inquisitors should work fine too - they get spontanious casting, less spells known and only lv6 spells in the end, but they get many other nice abilities to compensate. Gorum perhaps?

Gorum and LAW dont mesh too well together if i recall. T'was one of my main gripes since both Gorum and Urgathoa is locked out of LN.

[climbingeastofwinter]

Originally posted by Lersayil:

Need some advice on something that looks like a paladin, quacks like a paladin and tastes like a paladin, but is actually not a paladin.

Basically i want to play a paladin but have neither the will to play Lawful Good, neither the confidence i could keep it if i did.

The basic conept would be: heavy armor, greatsword / scythe, melee dps with self buffs, LN or LE Aasimar. No spells that require DC rolls. Basically a divine gish who is THE LAW.

I've considered Inquisitor and Crusader. Inquisitor needs a lot of patching in the form of feats to make the above work so not sure its worth it. While Crusader seems to stay too castery in higher levels and picking a generic cleric with a 1 dip in Fighter seem to give a lot of the feats i would pick up anyways?

Any thoughts? I would welcome some input before settling on a sub-optimal build for the RP.

I need to ask you this. Have you considered that what you may actually be looking to play is a Paladin who goes around doing everything they *want* to do, as you're describing, and then pays the clergy for Attonement (scrolls of Attonement) so they can turn around and get right back to work getting their hands dirty doing what they need to do to keep their faith safe and happy? ;)

It might be a little dark and cynical, but seems like you could just alter your point of view a bit and get everything you want from a Paladin or a Paladin multiclass, and a few dozen Scrolls of Attonment.

Edit: As the saying goes, it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission. ;)

[Lersayil]

Originally posted by climbingeastofwinter:

I need to ask you this. Have you considered that what you may actually be looking to play is a Paladin who goes around doing everything they *want* to do, as you're describing, and then pays the clergy for Attonement (scrolls of Attonement) so they can turn around and get right back to work getting their hands dirty doing what they need to do to keep their faith safe and happy? ;)

It might be a little dark and cynical, but seems like you could just alter your point of view a bit and get everything you want from a Paladin or a Paladin multiclass, and a few dozen Scrolls of Attonment.

I have nothing against the idea, but conceptually i am looking for more of a very... hmm. Stick up the ass type of character. Paladin of Tyr basically... (or Judge Dread if you will). In lore it would be a... Hellknight i guess? Leaning more to the Natural end? Not exactly home in the Pathfinder realms, so not sure how much Asmodeus would approve.

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

Btw there is a scroll in the game that you can buy in the capital (3K gold i think? really not that much once youre out of the early game). That allows you to reset your alignment back to what you started with.

There is no replacement for Paladin. Nothing else really offers the same things that paladin does. Flame warden/thunder ranger for glowy weapons and max BAB. All suggestions made in this thread dont get full BAB and as such are kinda bad at hitting things.

Monks are lawful and get neat selfbuffs but 2H is highly discouraged.

Just roll a paladin and keep one of the scrolls on hand for when you need them. Pally is great. Pally is special. Nothing is quite like it.

edit: just checked.. scroll of atonement 3600 gold (basically nothing.) 99 on offer from arsinoe (vendor in your capital, slightly to the right)

I will keep this in mind as a last resort. I would prefer not meta gaming it if i can avoid it with minor class compromises. Also as a very minor complaint, that would make my kingdom have the LG skin instead of the LN

[Lersayil]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Inquisitor with a small splash in Fighter(heavy armor, martial weapon, feats) and Vivi(Mutagen, sneak attack). Would also fit either LN or LE(you dont shy away from a little "enhancement" to carry out "THE LAW").

For a smooth early game, it might be best to start as Fighter(to get feats, armor and weapons), then Vivi(great damage amplifier) and then finish in Inquisitor.


In the current game, you will rarely reach level 20, so best to try and aim for a 16 build(with anything else just being a bonus).
Inquisitor does not have anything particular great at level 20 anyway(IMO, since it would require DC rolls).

Hmm this seems interesting. I'll quick level a char with mods and see where it gets. Vivi is... mechanically nice, but straining my headcanon for the char. Stabbing someone in the back with a greatsword is totally fine, but mutagens? Say no to drugs kids.

(then again i am chugging potions like a mad man all the time so theres that hypocrisy...)