Question about kindgom allies

[Werel]

I have read on the owlcatgames forum that your kingdom will meet ambassadors from other countries (one for each aligment). So my question is are they restricted to aligment or can a LE character ally with the witches of Irrisen or do you have to be NE.

I have another question if it is not to spoilery. What are the other countries you can ally with? The only one that is confirmed is Irrsien. Im really intrested what LE characters can ally with(I really hope its not Razmiran).

[thainen]

Your alignment determines which allies you get. I won't list all of them here, but LE gets you Hellknights.

[Werel]

Thank you for the answer.

[Not RDJ]

Originally posted by thainen:

Your alignment determines which allies you get. I won't list all of them here, but LE gets you Hellknights.

So allignment plays a large role in your options, eh? I get it, but... I have mixed feelings on that. I much prefer Faction Favor systems as they're much easier for the player to understand than moral allignments determined by the devs. You can get to know and understand a faction and the ideals behind it in game, you can't really do that with the devs who make the allignment point decisions.

How shiftable is allignment in this game?

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Not RDJ:

Originally posted by thainen:

Your alignment determines which allies you get. I won't list all of them here, but LE gets you Hellknights.

So allignment plays a large role in your options, eh? I get it, but... I have mixed feelings on that. I much prefer Faction Favor systems as they're much easier for the player to understand than moral allignments determined by the devs. You can get to know and understand a faction and the ideals behind it in game, you can't really do that with the devs who make the allignment point decisions.

I have to disagree. I don't see you cozying up to the good factions if you're trying to play an evil character. They'll probably try to arrest / kill you for your crimes against the people.

Conversely, I don't think little goody two-shoes are going to want to slum it up with the less reputable members of society.

Although I am now curious to see just what the Chaotic Evil allies might be. :)

[thainen]

Faction Favor is a cool thing to have, but it only makes sense in a game where factions play a huge role. The original Kingmaker AP is not that kind of story, it doesn't make you deal with several factions. Diplomacy is a part of it, but more of a side content than the main storyline. So, creating a full-scale diplomacy system with faction relationships would either mean changing the whole story massively, or adding a huge amount of content on top of the main story. What we did instead was adding medium-sized side storylines, making you deal with different faction depending on your alignment. The inner term for that feature was "kingdom as the companion", and this is what we did -- created a kind of "personal storyline" for your kingdom as a whole as it grows and interacts with neighbors.

[lojk]

Originally posted by thainen:

Faction Favor is a cool thing to have, but it only makes sense in a game where factions play a huge role. The original Kingmaker AP is not that kind of story, it doesn't make you deal with several factions. Diplomacy is a part of it, but more of a side content than the main storyline. So, creating a full-scale diplomacy system with faction relationships would either mean changing the whole story massively, or adding a huge amount of content on top of the main story. What we did instead was adding medium-sized side storylines, making you deal with different faction depending on your alignment. The inner term for that feature was "kingdom as the companion", and this is what we did -- created a kind of "personal storyline" for your kingdom as a whole as it grows and interacts with neighbors.

I think it is a good choice. I am not so familiar with the Kingmaker universe, but I highly doubt that faction which worships the devil would even talk to lawfull good faction. I am fine with this. :)

[Nerot]

Originally posted by lojk:

I highly doubt that faction which worships the devil would even talk to lawfull good faction.

Actually, devils in Pathfinder are Lawful creatures, so they have something in common with paladins. But worshiping Demons or Daemons is another point... XD

[00DeadMonkey]

Originally posted by thainen:

Your alignment determines which allies you get. I won't list all of them here, but LE gets you Hellknights.

Wait did you just try and pull a fast one? Cuz I remember a requirement about Hellknights that you sort of have to shall we say impress one to become one. And I thought that stretch goal didn't quite make it.

[thainen]

Originally posted by 00DeadMonkey:

And I thought that stretch goal didn't quite make it.

Yeah, Hellknights as a playable class didn't make it. Still, Hellknights as an organization are a part of the game's world. The ones you can meet would have Fighter class, probably. But they'll act as true Hellknights, hard justice and stuff!

[Not RDJ]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

I have to disagree. I don't see you cozying up to the good factions if you're trying to play an evil character. They'll probably try to arrest / kill you for your crimes against the people.

Conversely, I don't think little goody two-shoes are going to want to slum it up with the less reputable members of society.

Although I am now curious to see just what the Chaotic Evil allies might be. :)

My point was that Faction Favor systems are easier to comprehend because you can understand and estimate the "value" of your actions to a faction with clearly stated ideals and motivations more easily than you can a moral allignment system created by people you don't know. Heck, I'm sure the dev team who decided allignment value of choices had plenty of arguments with each other over what choice shift towards what allignment for how many points before coming to a consensus.

Originally posted by thainen:

Faction Favor is a cool thing to have, but it only makes sense in a game where factions play a huge role. The original Kingmaker AP is not that kind of story, it doesn't make you deal with several factions. Diplomacy is a part of it, but more of a side content than the main storyline. So, creating a full-scale diplomacy system with faction relationships would either mean changing the whole story massively, or adding a huge amount of content on top of the main story. What we did instead was adding medium-sized side storylines, making you deal with different faction depending on your alignment. The inner term for that feature was "kingdom as the companion", and this is what we did -- created a kind of "personal storyline" for your kingdom as a whole as it grows and interacts with neighbors.

I don't know enough abou the Kingmaker AP to make a point against any of this, so I'll take your word for it. What you've said makes sense from a development stand point, and I look forward to seeing how it plays out. I just don't feel that I can understand the moral value of actions created by the developers as easily as I could an in-game factions. My worry is my actions making sense and seeming in character to me but going against an omniscient allignment system tht makes sense to all of the in-game characters but not to me as a player.

I'd like to repeat my question about changing allignment. Is it possible for allignment shifts to happen during the story or are we stuck with what we choose in Character Creation? Will there also be descriptions of the different allignments and the actions and mindsets of characters with these allignments?

[GrandMajora]

Considering the class descriptions warn about the consequences of diverging too far off your restricted alignment, I'm going to say it's safe to assume changing alignment is possible.

And, of course, there's the beta videos which shows the player's alignment gradually shifting around the spectrum, based on their actions and dialogue choices.

[Not RDJ]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Considering the class descriptions warn about the consequences of diverging too far off your restricted alignment, I'm going to say it's safe to assume changing alignment is possible.

And, of course, there's the beta videos which shows the player's alignment gradually shifting around the spectrum, based on their actions and dialogue choices.

Haven't watched any, want to be as fresh as possible when the day comes. Well, that's something at least. Maybe I'll just start True Neutral and see where I fall by the end.

[alrik1119]

What allies will chaotic good and chaotic neutral get me?, Amiri perhaps?

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Not RDJ:

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Haven't watched any, want to be as fresh as possible when the day comes. Well, that's something at least. Maybe I'll just start True Neutral and see where I fall by the end.

The alignment system is represented by a wheel. You choose an alignment at the start of the game and you gain a marker on the wheel showcasing that's your alignment. During the game, you have the option of making choices that diverge from your starting alignment, which slowly drags your alignment marker into one of the other areas on the wheel. Make too many choices in that area, and you may find your alignment changes to represent it.


Sometimes, we have to do things we don't necessarily want to do, but that doesn't mean it changes who we are as people.

So don't worry about choosing options that don't fall within your alignment range, because the shift doesn't happen immediately. It's a gradual process that takes place over the course of numerous decisions. And I believe that as long as you maintain a balance between Neutral, Chaotic and Lawful decisions, then you can help keep your alignment marker from sliding too far out of range of what you initially wanted.

[thainen]

Originally posted by alrik1119:

What allies will chaotic good and chaotic neutral get me?, Amiri perhaps?

Amiri's tribe is part of her personal quest.
CG kingdom gets you a questline with Varisian worshippers of Desna. CN kingdom attracts the attention of Calistria's assassins guild.