the biggest total fail of this game...... Alchemist vs casters...

[saliddry]

i played a lot of neverwinter nights 1 + all dlc and hundrets of hours on online shards
and played a lot of neverwinter nights 2 + dlc and online shards

what i realy hate about this game is this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Alchemist vs caster balance...

HOW CAN an alchemist throw explosive granates or acid flasks right into the clashing mob of meele combatants
WITHOUT HURTING a single party member.....

While my sorc or druid cant realy use there spells like fireball of lightning or meteor shower or snowstorm or whatever without nearly killing of my own party members......

this makes casters to support only for displacement haste stoneskin and so on thats it ...

I DONT NOW if it is the pathfinder ruleset that allows alchemists to do 0.0.0.l0.0ö.0 damage to partymembers while casters seems do to tripple damage to the own group compared to the enemys

but it simply ♥♥♥♥♥ me off...... this sucks so hard i nearly lost interest in this game... my favorit classes where allways.... sorc.. druid..or favoret soul.......as prestige stormlord (monkeygrip feat to wear spear 1 handed) eldrich knight

i wish this game would have been made as another neverwinter nights game....

but like i said ... this dumb ruleset is just taking all the cool casters out of action...

i could live with it .. i played with with spells can harm own party too....

but than why doesnt the alchemist harm the own party?????????

[Cain]

Originally posted by AVGAMER:

4th ed was under ratd imo, it was very differant but I really enjoyed it the fighter, paladin and warden were amazing.

Well, I guess it's based on personal preference. Some of my friends were really felt in love with 4th ED, but I always felt it extremely boring the few times we played. It was easy to use as a GM, I give it that.

[Ciellyn]

Couldn't you... like, put on a protection from energy spell beforehand?

[Quacksalber]

Originally posted by BlueBangkok:

I think that devs should consider adding Friendly Fire on/off option to the difficulty setting screen. It's such an important quality of life improvement for PC gamers it boggles my mind why it's not there already.

Or at least make enemies trigger their own traps if aoe is going to be such a big feature. It also really annoys me that my toons refuse to disable traps in combat. They'll see it, I tell them to disable, a monster spots them and by default they then walk into the trap instead of disabling it. Yaya, I know you can make them go in the other direction etc, but it's just downright unrealistic as no one walks right into a trap they can both see and were about to disable xD

[DodgeyB]

For me, its I don't think casters translate well into this format. Even Sorc's and the like, when you're playing table top the same amount of fights that you can knock out in 10 minutes, could take hours in a table top game. So you burn through resources hella fast, and the game becomes a resting simulator.

Thats fine, I'm still playing it and having a blast. Just always makes me chuckle, moving 20 feet then camping

[OnlyOffensive]

Originally posted by IxiFoori:

wizards/sorcs = CC
Alch = raw damage

and then you turn into dragon with BAB20 and breath attacks immunities and presence and hes still throwing flasks xD

Seriosly, wizards/sorcs have so many fun ways to play. I currently ENJOY undead bloodline sorc, it fits lich archtype perfectly and incorporeal form and one of us are just crazy good and fun aswell as million other feats/perks.

I mean declaring casters as single purpose is just incompetente, with enough imagination you can turn them into gods of combat tricks/damage/control etc and as i said he's still throwing flasks.

[Kel'Ithra]

I have no issues with AoE spells, its all about managing your front line to set up the enemy either into a cone blast, circular blast or a lightning bolt by manouvering the caster so it lines up to hit as many of them as possible.

The main issues with Alchemists is the AI abuses it when its using the class.

But as far as caster AoE's its about initial strikes, swarm management (killed off the entire cultist mob with 2 carefully placed fireballs at the secret meeting place. At the start as they began swarming.)

Also communal energy resistance spells make a difference. It's all about moving your caster as needed and your front liners to maximise the amount of mobs you affect.

[Kyutaru]

From PNP through CRPGs, wizards as damage dealers is a secret joke that veterans make. They're actually terrible at it given what fighter builds can accomplish in the same settings. What the fighter cannot do is control the battle and present save or suck options or versatile party buffs that improve the RNG in your favor. Relying on nukes is assured to have you spamming reload buttons hopping for the right level of RNG to go in your favor. Bring resurrection scrolls if you go the glass cannon route.

Other RPGs like JRPGs do casters as nukers. But in D&D and Pathfinder you're better off blurring the fighter than yourself, better off hasting the fighter than yourself, better off slowing the enemies than reducing their hitpoints by a miniscule amount. People who actually think Evocation is a good school are playing with a far too generous GM who gives you encounters that can be solved with a fireball and then allows you to rest without concern. This is a product of the tabletop game having no measure of balance. Heck, you can still hear the praise of Clerics and Druids being the top tier party members because balance is an illusion.

Alchemist I think was designed to give people the exact sort of playstyle they were trying to turn wizards and sorcerers into. The big fancy nuker without metamagic or versatility. Obviously it means he's going to be better at it.

[Kelticfury]

I should have realized by the title of this thread that it would be inane ravings.

[OnlyOffensive]

im actually curious is incorporeal form unique to undead sorc? Or there is some kind of spell that covers it?

[Kain Yusanagi]

Originally posted by BlueBangkok:

Well, the exclusion of friendly targets that is available in NWN 1 and 2 is *not* part of core rules, it's just a quality of life addition specific to those PC games. In PnP rules you do not get the luxury of ignoring friendly targets with your wiz/sorc aoe spells, unless specifically permitted by the DM.

Actually, http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/selective-spell-metamagic/ it's not just a QoL for NWN 1 & 2, but an actual metamagic feat. Also, http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/magical-lineage/ allows you to do this with a specific spell without increasing its actual spell level, meaning that a Selective Fireball would remain a 3rd level spell, for example; best used on 7th-9th level spells that normally can't be used with much metamagic.

Originally posted by Cain:

Interestingly I can use fireballs and lightning bolt just fine with three different characters in my party. I also don't walk into my own web/entangle. Learn to target (and time) your ♥♥♥♥♥♥ area effects dude!

Alchemist is more single target dps than a real AOE attacker with "basic" bombs anyway.

BTW, in my experience AOE effects are best at the beginning of battle anyway, if ever. In this game it was really a case that I had problem with a big amount of minions. Against individually powerfull enemies fireball&co is not the ideal solution.

the problem with that is how enemies bumrush you ASAP, meaning you basically have to lead with it before you start charging your melee into combat. This is one of the ways that TT and by extension turn-based shine so well, because you don't have to have the skill mastered over years of twitch reflexes to cast it in the right spot and catch the most number of enemies that a wizard in the same situation would have.

[TaurusBully]

Originally posted by Brew:

Originally posted by Zerathule:

The problem with casters in this game is related to real time.
In the PNP game, a wizard who has initiative (and he should do everything he can to have the best initiative score possible) will act before the ennemy moves, and start locking them down (potentially, if the wizard is ambushing, he can cast a spell in the surprise round, and one in the first round before the ennemy reacts). In the game, as it's real time, everyone acts at the same time, meaning even if you have initiative, your spell will launch after the ennemy has completed his movement.
That's a major issue, as you just can't control the battlefield.
Also, all the great CC spells a wizard uses in pnp don't exist in this game.
Laslty, there are so many fights you have to chain, so unless you want to rest after every other fight, you don't have enought spells to sustain that rythm of fights.



Regarding AoE damage spells, sorcerers can be pretty mean in pnp, but the lack of a few options make them really weak damage dealers in the computer game. Wizards can't be good nukers, both in pnp and the crpg.

Ultimately, i don't play wizard or sorcerer in my team, even if it's my favourite class in pnp.

I dont think i get your point about enemies moving before your spellcaster finishes his spell since your sight range is bigger than enemy aggro range. There are some exceptions like scripted ambushes but overall in the open field or large instances i had no problems starting with my sorcerer and pulling him behind my frontline after he finished casting.

This.

I was able to cast frost rocks (that lvl 4 spell) 3 times on some nasty owbears before they reached me.

[Aldric]

Originally posted by TaurusBully:

Originally posted by Brew:

I dont think i get your point about enemies moving before your spellcaster finishes his spell since your sight range is bigger than enemy aggro range. There are some exceptions like scripted ambushes but overall in the open field or large instances i had no problems starting with my sorcerer and pulling him behind my frontline after he finished casting.

This.

I was able to cast frost rocks (that lvl 4 spell) 3 times on some nasty owbears before they reached me.

What are "owbears" ?

[Flatbuffer]

Originally posted by Aldric:

Originally posted by TaurusBully:

This.

I was able to cast frost rocks (that lvl 4 spell) 3 times on some nasty owbears before they reached me.

What are "owbears" ?

Bears with owl faces

[Kyutaru]

Originally posted by Aldric:

Originally posted by TaurusBully:

This.

I was able to cast frost rocks (that lvl 4 spell) 3 times on some nasty owbears before they reached me.

What are "owbears" ?

The scariest things in the game.

[OnlyOffensive]

anyone can answer my question about incorporeal form?