Early game damage spells

[InF]

So I haven't tried pathfinder before so I don't know if spells get a lot more powerful at later levels... however I find that damage spells are next to useless. Cantrips are 1-3 or 1-5 and lvl 1 spells aren't much better. I feel like my PC (A sorceress) contributes nothing in terms of damage in fights and it's honestly pretty disheartening.

The Barbarian woman you early on is wrecking house, basically destroying most enemies with basic attacks and where I am with 6 lvl 1 spell lots that cant even deal half her damage.

I just dinged lvl 3 and gained magic missile which seem to be a step up in power, even if the are still incredibly weak compared to my melee companions

[OnlyOffensive]

cantrips were always close to useless in d&d, alot of level 1 spells are pretty strong. Burning hands, color spray, magic missile ( especially if you pick it with favorite spell feat, it recieves bonus missile on 1st level ), different touches.

Since you are sorcerer enjoy your 2 spells to fullest ahahaha.

Having spells means you can overcome AC and provide alot of usefull support, but usually casters start to kick mid/late game, there are few things more terrifying in d&d than high level wizard that built well.

[Shazbot!]

try using CC spells instead, untill decentish spells sorcs are almost a dead weight

Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:

there are few things more terrifying in d&d than high level wizard that built well.

Yeah, and one of them is a sorcerer that built well.

[Caelestus]

I played a Monk Sorcerer on my first ever PnP and wrecked house. I wrecked house because I hit everywhere around the target, but not the target itself... But that one time I landed the hit, it was beautiful. Luckily, spells don't perform in a flurry of misses.

[InF]

I have played a wizard for a bit in 5e and I've gotta say that I feel like early game spells there are atleast viable options.. even if they aren't amazing. I was honestly going for a "fiery justice" type soceress, dealing out massive destruction from afar.. I guess I'll have to be dead weight untill the midgame from what you guys are telling me :P I've never built a sorc before, so I hope I don't mess it up too badly.

Just kinda feels poorly balanced that something that requires spellslots deals less damage than my tank character does just be standing there.

By the way, metamagic is a really neat mechanic in principle.. I was imaging magic missile + maximize spell would be a neat trick.. sadly it turned into a 4th lvl spell xD

[OnlyOffensive]

Originally posted by InF:

I have played a wizard for a bit in 5e and I've gotta say that I feel like early game spells there are atleast viable options.. even if they aren't amazing. I was honestly going for a "fiery justice" type soceress, dealing out massive destruction from afar.. I guess I'll have to be dead weight untill the midgame from what you guys are telling me :P I've never built a sorc before, so I hope I don't mess it up too badly.

Just kinda feels poorly balanced that something that requires spellslots deals less damage than my tank character does just be standing there.

But all she can do is dealing damage, and spells provide MUCH more than that. Plus you can damage enemies, she would have problems with, plus you will be really usefull against enemies that require specific energy type.

Just for a little example i tried multiple times to win on hard at oleg place against swarm of bandits, and what made difference between win or lose is successful color spray and few missiles into boss that dont miss ( he has pretty good AC otherwise ). So yeah, spellcasters are suited for their specific tasks that mere barbarians cannot perform.

[Caelestus]

Originally posted by InF:

I have played a wizard for a bit in 5e and I've gotta say that I feel like early game spells there are atleast viable options.. even if they aren't amazing. I was honestly going for a "fiery justice" type soceress, dealing out massive destruction from afar.. I guess I'll have to be dead weight untill the midgame from what you guys are telling me :P I've never built a sorc before, so I hope I don't mess it up too badly.

Just kinda feels poorly balanced that something that requires spellslots deals less damage than my tank character does just be standing there.

Well, if you consider what those spells can do even at a low level. I'm sure no frontline character can deal 5d6 in an area with partial save at level five. Or bring someone's stats down to 1 and watch them squirm.

[InF]

Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:

Originally posted by InF:

I have played a wizard for a bit in 5e and I've gotta say that I feel like early game spells there are atleast viable options.. even if they aren't amazing. I was honestly going for a "fiery justice" type soceress, dealing out massive destruction from afar.. I guess I'll have to be dead weight untill the midgame from what you guys are telling me :P I've never built a sorc before, so I hope I don't mess it up too badly.

Just kinda feels poorly balanced that something that requires spellslots deals less damage than my tank character does just be standing there.

But all she can do is dealing damage, and spells provide MUCH more than that. Plus you can damage enemies, she would have problems with, plus you will be really usefull against enemies that require specific energy type.

Sure.. but I'd say that the whole reason that spells take spell slots to use, is that whatever you spent it on should be more powerful than the "free" option for another class, otherwise.. it's kinda "meh" right?
On my wizard (on 5e rules) I do enjoy using a ton of problem solving spells and such, but that kinda approach really isn't nearly as fun in a computer game... Which is why I'd prefer a more straight forward fiery inferno type caster this time around :)

[OnlyOffensive]

Originally posted by Shazbot!:

try using CC spells instead, untill decentish spells sorcs are almost a dead weight

Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:

there are few things more terrifying in d&d than high level wizard that built well.

Yeah, and one of them is a sorcerer that built well.

I feel like school spec in this game puts wizards above sorcs. Though i must confess i don't really know what makes sorcs strong later in game. for me they just a spell spam machine as always.

[SIlverblade-T-E]

Wizards ealry on SUCK for damage, it's not their forte'
as you gain levels...then things change

Scorching Ray, 2nd level is an absolute butt kicker for damage throughout your career (seriously, regardless of your role' it's nealry always very very effective apart form on fire resistant critters)
multipel strikes at higher level, touch AC attack, good damage per ray

but if you plan on going a damage dealer of that sort, rather than Crowd Control or Buffs, you should think about gettign Point BLank shot feat.
also havign good Dexterity to help hit

Crowd Control and Buffs are WAY more efficient and useful for wizards than just nukes.
Blur, Displacement and espeically hate, result in MUCh eaiser fights.

at higher level, ray spells, like Disintegrate, Polar Ray, can do incredible damage

[climbingeastofwinter]

Originally posted by InF:

So I haven't tried pathfinder before so I don't know if spells get a lot more powerful at later levels... however I find that damage spells are next to useless. Cantrips are 1-3 or 1-5 and lvl 1 spells aren't much better. I feel like my PC (A sorceress) contributes nothing in terms of damage in fights and it's honestly pretty disheartening.

The Barbarian woman you early on is wrecking house, basically destroying most enemies with basic attacks and where I am with 6 lvl 1 spell lots that cant even deal half her damage.

I just dinged lvl 3 and gained magic missile which seem to be a step up in power, even if the are still incredibly weak compared to my melee companions

Level 1 damage spells are by necessity pretty useless at level 1, but there are a few gems in line-up that will become useful as you gain caster level as most damage spells gain damage dice as you level. Magic Missile in particular is a staple, and by level 9 you're absolutely going to love being able to throw 5d4+5 non-save, non-attack based force damage with it. Burning hands and Shocking Grasp aren't bad and cap out at 5 dice of damage at level 5.

As a first, second or third level character though, you don't have much in the way of damage capability. My advice would be to pick up the spell Shield and maybe Protection from Alignment, and rely on your infinite cantrips for damage, if not your weapon, if you need damage. Color spray is a very, very effective spell for the first few levels. Sleep and Hypnotism have hard HD limits on what they can effect and quickly become useless - not worth a sorceror's consideration, in general, because of how few spells known they are able to learn.

But yea, early game performance tends to depend more on attribute allocation, feat choice and weapon choice than on class choice. If you rolled your sorceress with a 20 strength and weapon focus (Greatsword) it would be a different story about her damage.

[InF]

Originally posted by Caelestus:

Originally posted by InF:

I have played a wizard for a bit in 5e and I've gotta say that I feel like early game spells there are atleast viable options.. even if they aren't amazing. I was honestly going for a "fiery justice" type soceress, dealing out massive destruction from afar.. I guess I'll have to be dead weight untill the midgame from what you guys are telling me :P I've never built a sorc before, so I hope I don't mess it up too badly.

Just kinda feels poorly balanced that something that requires spellslots deals less damage than my tank character does just be standing there.

Well, if you consider what those spells can do even at a low level. I'm sure no frontline character can deal 5d6 in an area with partial save at level five. Or bring someone's stats down to 1 and watch them squirm.

Again, I have no idea what unlocks in later levels... I certainly can do nothing of the sort at lvl 3 :P I just see my tank(s) dealing 10 damage quite often where as I'm happy if my magic missile hit for 8.. and that's my most powerful spell so far.

Again, this isn't so much a complaint as it is me wondering If I should expect to remain very low on the damage meter. Obviously A spellcaster isn't ment to deal consistent high damage, rather I was hoping to see rare bursts of massive destruction.

[Shahadem]

Originally posted by InF:

I have played a wizard for a bit in 5e and I've gotta say that I feel like early game spells there are atleast viable options.. even if they aren't amazing. I was honestly going for a "fiery justice" type soceress, dealing out massive destruction from afar.. I guess I'll have to be dead weight untill the midgame from what you guys are telling me :P I've never built a sorc before, so I hope I don't mess it up too badly.

Just kinda feels poorly balanced that something that requires spellslots deals less damage than my tank character does just be standing there.

By the way, metamagic is a really neat mechanic in principle.. I was imaging magic missile + maximize spell would be a neat trick.. sadly it turned into a 4th lvl spell xD

I've always felt like in 5th edition spellcasters taper off in damage usefulness at the higher levels as their spells simply do not scale very well.

[OnlyOffensive]

yea there should be a pack of good old trusty spells like fireballs, cone of colds etc. Although i really love martial wizards, but people said me that typical no spells/crazy combat stats in this game only at 19 lvl :(

[Midnight]

Originally posted by OnlyOffensive:

Originally posted by Shazbot!:

try using CC spells instead, untill decentish spells sorcs are almost a dead weight


Yeah, and one of them is a sorcerer that built well.

I feel like school spec in this game puts wizards above sorcs. Though i must confess i don't really know what makes sorcs strong later in game. for me they just a spell spam machine as always.

I would like to point out the little detail that later on sorcerers can turn into ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ DRAGON with the proper bloodline and get natural elemental resistances.

But yeah, this game is actually good to wizards because there's a huge variety in monsters and encounteres so unlike in some other CRPGs the chances of coming across something that makes your fiery master sorcerer completely useless is rather high.

[SIlverblade-T-E]

Greater Spell Focus Enchantment

Necklace that increases spell DC for enchantment by +1

and Hideous laughter, will put most "tough" enemies, barbarians fighters, trolls etc, out of the fight
MUCH better use for a wizard, IMHO :)

and, never overlook how good focusing feats for Summoned Minions gets
+4 Str/Con, +1 critter = lot of problems for enemies ;)