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Forces deserved to get overhated when we got Lost World and Boom before and that the previous Boost game was much better in almost every way.
** "Change my mind" = "I have an opinion but I don't want to debate" = You're trying to insult someone with your wretched sentence. **
Please don't sound like a 10 year old Sonic fan, this sentence of yours contains toxicity and hate. So if you want me to discuss this with you in a respectful way then you have to be careful about the way you're commenting. Otherwise don't wait me to talk you in a serious way.
If I didn't want to debate this opinion well then I wouldn't open this debate in
"General *DISCUSSIONS*"
Also I've read your Sonic Colors HD thing at the Steam discussions... This would be the one of the last things I could ever want from SEGA to release in 30th Anniversary. Game itself is not *that* good also it has decent graphics there are Sonic games like Adventure 1, Adventure 2, Heroes, Riders etc... which are the games that actually deserves to get a remake or at least a remaster... The only thing I want to see about Sonic Colors and Sonic Unleashed is getting ported into the other platforms like Nintendo Switch etc. even if I don't own a one. I played Unleashed, Riders and Heroes as a kid yet I still think Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 were the best 3D Sonic games that I have ever played. I played both of those games about 2-3 years ago.
**Honestly, Forces is better than Generations and Lost World if we are talking about the game mechanics. If you suck at playing Sonic Forces that doesn't mean game sucks, this means you have to get used to the new controls. I prefer playing a Sonic game like Forces rather than playing a boost-to-win game like Sonic Generations. I remember that how I was able to skip nearly %50 of the level in Generations with Classic Sonic's spin+jump release. Hopefully they removed this feature in Sonic Forces. Yeah they also swapped Sonic's homing push to double jump which seems ok since Sonic's homing push was nearly useless. Sonic also got a new mechanic called "aerial boost" in Sonic Forces.
Level designs were enjoyable yet they were still challenging sometimes.
Sonic Unleashed> Sonic Forces> Sonic the Lost World = Sonic Colors> Sonic Generations
Sonic Colors is the worst boost Sonic game after Generations...
The best boost Sonic game was Sonic Unleashed, well also:
Sonic Forces probably has the worst story after '06 but let's be honest nearly all of those boost Sonic games' story were all cheesy except for the Unleashed's story.
I'm not saying Sonic Forces is a perfect game but I'm saying that this game isn't a trash game unlike the salty and edgy Sonic fans say. It's better than most of the other Sonic games released in past decade(2010's) if we are talking about the game mechanics. People overhated it not because of the thing you said, people overhated it because SEGA hyped the Sonic fans too much. I don't think you tried to %100 the game after finishing the story mode. I've tried to do that and I enjoyed doing it, it took 50 hours. Yet I still have left 2 achievements to unlock called "Ring Collector" and "Ring King". I tried the same thing on Generations and it took about 30 hours. After that I downloaded some mods and played a little bit then I deleted the game from my computer which I'm going to do the same thing after I finish my challange in the Sonic Forces.
The game is too short (even more than Generations or Colors), the Avatar stages are just boostless Modern Sonic with a gun, the Classic Sonic levels have a bad design and Classic's controls are just worse than in Generations (and that's a fact).
Finally the story makes absolutely no sense, Infinite is a bad villain and the bosses are not even interesting to fight against.
I %100 agree with you with the thing you said about the story of Sonic Forces. It's story sucks but story is just an element and the other elements of the game is not bad yet they are not perfect at all. Bosses were all started to become too easy on Sonic games since the modern era started with the release of Sonic Adventure. For an example in Sonic Adventure 2, you can defeat Shadow or Sonic in a minutes which they were supposed to be the final boss fight of the Hero story and Dark story. Also the final boss of the Sonic Forces was a pain in the *** for me especially if you try to do the speedrun challenge game gives to you which it wants you to finish final boss in 4 minutes and 20 seconds. Don't forget that Sonic games are intended for children that are at the age of 7-10. For those kids who hardly can press the buttons or use joysticks, bosses are not that easy. If you ask me, Sonic Heroes had one of the hardest bosses and it is the hardest modern Sonic game I've ever played.
"I've tried to do that and I enjoyed doing it, it took 50 hours. Yet I still have left 2 achievements to unlock called "Ring Collector" and "Ring King". I tried to do the same thing on Generations and it took about 30 hours. After that I downloaded some mods and played a little bit then I deleted the game from my computer which I'm going to do the same thing after I finish my challenges on the Sonic Forces"
Also Mania is still the best game with Classic Sonic that came out this last decade.
I agree with both of you. It's not as good as the Adventure games, Shadow or 2006, there's too many 2D sections, the world building is way too underdeveloped, the English dub is awful and the levels are too short but at least it's better than Colors or Sonic Boom.
"I recommend you to not take his response too seriously since he has been hit by the nostalgia. His love* for Sonic Colors is because of the nostalgia."
Also I don't think Sonic '06 is a good game. It really has so many bugs and the story is too bad, story would be like 9/10 or even 10/10 if there wasn't any love relationship going on with the Elise (Human) and Sonic (Anthromorphic Character). Any kind of game is better than Sonic '06. Don't forget the fact that Sonic games are for kids and if you think that way Sonic '06 is actually not for kids because there are some scenes about Sonic and Elise's relationship that goes far too much for kids to interact. They are not +18 scenes but you know still... Sonic Colors is intended for platforms like DS and Wii so it's actually a good game but not as good as he says. If you ask me Sonic Forces is just like Shadow the Hedgehog. Let me explain, first of all, it has some flaws like stage design etc. and secondly developers tried to give both of these games serious and dark atmospheres but they've failed. Third reason is these games are not bad as how people treat them.
"I'm not saying Sonic Forces is a perfect game but I'm saying that this game isn't a trash game unlike the salty and edgy Sonic fans say. It's better than most of the other Sonic games released in past decade(2010's) if we are talking about the game mechanics."
FOR YOU TO TAKE A BETTER LOOK I'M SEPERATING
* It's better than most of the other Sonic games released in past decade(2010's)*
I don't really think I've said something like "Sonic Forces is the best Sonic game in past decade". So can you tell me why are you telling me such a thing like that? Are you not good at speaking English? If you're not, then you haven't give your time to read my comments 'cause there is a huge difference between "the most" and "one of the most" and I said that Sonic Forces is better than most of the other Sonic games released in past decade...
I wonder why people didn't care about the fact which Sonic Generations' gameplay lenght is about 2 hours and 15 mins while they complain about Sonic Forces by keep telling such a thing like "The game is too short!!!". Ah yes and I finished Sonic Generations 2 times on PS3 and then I finished it once again on PC. So what's the matter?
Don't rely on me?
Here's the source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMopx-E4la0
I'll try to keep your advice in mind, thanks.
Sonic games have never been just for kids: they've been for everyone. That's why the Adventure games onward had serious themes at times, like in Sonic Adventure 2. I get why some people dislike Sonic 2006 due to its (actually quite rare) bugs and general unfinished state but the Elise & Sonic relationship was never bad: Blinx the Time Sweeper did the exact same thing twice (once per game) and Link did it too in Breath of the Wild with Mipha i.e. a dolphin girl. Both of those are "kid friendly" games themselves and everyone liked it when they did it.
Plus a lot of Sonic fans draw shipping art of Sonic characters and/or other franchise anthropomorph characters with humans so that makes them hypocrites.
Shadow the Hedgehog actually succeeded where Forces failed with its darker story: Shadow was about said character getting over his amnesia from Heroes, which had started causing problems for him and having his old angst resurface. While the branching path system where you played him as heroic or angsty as you wanted with a true heroic ending in the last story was cool, the game didn't handle it as well as it should: In the Last Story, Shadow just ends up with all emeralds on the black comet regardless of path prior to unlocking with no explanation of how he got there.
If/when this game gets remade, they should have a True Path in the Last Story before the actual final stage & boss so as to fill in that plot hole, with all 10 endings and their paths to them being framed as a Marathon Infinity or groundhog day style time loop, where canonologically he starts pure dark and works his way down one at a time, with each in-universe restart showing his growth as a character before the true path leads him not only through all stages in a way that makes sense with him still on the side of good (like being a double agent against the Black Arms for the true path's version of the dark path stages) before reaching the Last Story events we currently have. That's how I'd do it.
But back to the main point; in the Last Story, after spending at least 10 failed alternate timelines attempting to use the Chaos Emeralds to remember who he was, Shadow learns his true purpose and why he was made: the bad guy in his game (Black Doom) wanted to use him and Gerald Robotnik to bring him the chaos emeralds so they could invade Earth. Gerald learned this, recorded a log before the GUN raid to Shadow about what to do to stop them, and built the Eclipse Cannon for Shadow to destroy the comet when it returned. It took Maria's death to make Robotnik forget this so that made the recording (which the Chaotix were implied to have been hired by someone to recover throughout the main game) vital. Once he learns all of this, Shadow finally has closure about his past and decides to move on, now knowing the heroic intentions both Professor Robotnik and Maria intended for him, which leads to him joining GUN and keeping his no-longer-angsty self in Sonic 2006. (The GUN commander gets over his issues with Shadow too thanks to Prof. Robotnik's video from the Last Story, but that's beside the point)
I actually like Shadow's stage design over Forces as it's similar to SA2 but improved in some areas, though I do admit the two ARK flashback levels, Central City and Mad Matrix's dark mission are too mazy and the mission based system can be a turn-off for some. (especially as Team Chaotix's version of such a system didn't work in Heroes) Plus there was no forced 2D in my 3D platformer in sight so that's an automatic gold star.
The gunplay was fun as hell as well despite its overall simplicity, being something I'd wanted to see in pretty much any game or TV show I saw growing up, and this was from when I was 3. (I was either 9 or 10 by the time I first played Shadow) I used to think it was like Halo 2, Half Life 1 or Tomb Raider 3 as a kid but in my late teen years I noticed it's more like a third person version of Rise of the Triad, but with less missile weapons.
I respect your opinions however and I get what you're saying about Shadow and Forces. I do agree they share similarities like the avatar stages having wispons (instead of Shadow's equally interesting traditional firearms), especially the fact they are nowhere near as bad as people think.
The issue I personally had with Forces' darker tone was that while it was welcome, the game didn't do a very good job at explaining how bad Eggman screwed up the world and how everyone outside the main cast -both human and morph- were affected by it. I even made an entire essay about how the game world of Forces should have been fleshed out to address that issue, as the idea of Eggman winning is full of untapped potential.
Speaking of Sonic 2006 again, I recommend you check out the fan PC remake Sonic P-06. It aims to fix all the problems the original had mechanically and do it the justice it deserves. It's only a series of demos at the moment (3.5 is currently the most up to date one) and it currently only has Sonic's stage select mode but it's well worth it regardless. If you don't like the story to the game, it probably won't help you there but hopefully you'll find it more fun to play than the original. I certainly did. :)