Out of ammo

[Dorok]

I was playing the game believing there was no ammo management and wondering if it wouldn't be better with some.

Until I had a mech going out of ammo, sigh, seriously? And only for bullets weapons? I'll have to reconsider the use of bullets weapons. Is really they was needing this balance in comparison of other weapons?

EDIT: Yeah a design error, you can't balance weapons with limited number of ammo, the problem, missions duration with variable lengths or amount of enemies. There's a quite big design hole here.

EDIT2: it's huge, clearly few players use AC weapons and still argue it's balanced and justified because from original rules, sorry but there's something wrong.

EDIT3: So the balancing with ammo would be that there's a maximum number of targets in any mission. Story missions tend get longer so should require more ammo. Well ok let say that.

Some quoted 8-12 targets per mission, I already know this is wrong. But anyway it's not just about number of targets, but their strength or resilience too.

[CravenCoyote]

Energy weapons use no ammo but at the expense of heat.
Ballistic and Missile weapons yeild more range and, from what I understand, less heat - but of course require ammunition.

When you fit your mech, you can add more ammo or remove ammo.

[Path]

Considering how short missions are this actuaally works out in favour of ACs and missiles, considering how inefficient enery weapons are. If they were longer ammunition might force you to reconsider them, but as things stand you're better off sticking to MLAS and ignoring other energy weapons.

[CravenCoyote]

I wouldn't say energy weapons are inefficient. It definitely helps to have plenty of heatsinks fitted though.

Remember, heatsinks in the legs cool more when in water which is very useful at times.

[NoRA]

The other tradeoff of using energy weapons is that, except for the PPC, none of them cause stability damage.

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by Dorok:

Is really they was needing this balance in comparison of other weapons?

Yes.

No, really. The answer to your question is "yes of course". And while the game has faults in explaining some game mechanics, ballistic-weapons-needing-ammunition is very clearly explained, considering that every mech that has an autocannon also has a slot for "AC/X Ammo", and hovering the mouse over any "ammo" lists how many rounds/missiles come in each "slot" of ammo.

The fact that ACs generate not heat but use Ammo balances the fact that Lasers use no ammo but generate heat.

[matthew]

I would use PPC weapons as well, I have great success using one to knock out fixed turrets, but I haven't used large lasers, and from what I read, not much point.

PPC and med lasers are good. then use AC and LRMs.

Oh yes, ignore MGs, they seem useless as well.

[Path]

Originally posted by Elk Cloner:

I wouldn't say energy weapons are inefficient. It definitely helps to have plenty of heatsinks fitted though.

Remember, heatsinks in the legs cool more when in water which is very useful at times.

What? PPCs are bad (terrible unless you're running the improved versions) and the Large Laser is atrocious. No, ACs, missiles and MLAS are what you want.

[GM Pax]

It's a classic dichotomy in BattleTech: energy weapons are expensive to buy, expensive to maintain, and usually deal less damage for their weight, volume, and heat generation .... but as long as you can keep your fusion reactor running, you'll never run out of ammo. And in some parts of the Periphery, good luck even FINDING one.

Ballistic weapons, however, do consume ammunition .... but the guns and launchers are cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain, and you can find some version of them just about anywhere humans have ever lived.

Just be glad ammunition is sufficiently standardized that the AC/5 ammunition you salvaged from that Capellan Confederation lance, can be used by your Steiner or Kurita built AC/5's ... :D

[Dorok]

Sigh, missiles have also limited ammo? Ok the problem could come from remembering have read a complain about lack of ammo management, which made me discard the numbers I admit have seen.

Now get it, it was just arguing for the global management, ok ok. For the balances I'll see.

[GM Pax]

Originally posted by Dorok:

Sigh, missiles have also limited ammo?

Yes.

BUT ... one ton of LRM ammunition is 100 missiles. If all you've got is a single LRM5, that's twenty shots. :)

I have yet to need more than 1 ton of missiles, even for mechs that are relative missile boats (three SRM4s, for example).

[Kommissar K]

When people say "no ammo management" in Battletech, they mean on the strategic level. You don't have to make it a point to salvage SRM ammo or go to a port and buy ammo for your AC20.

The components dropped are the bins for the ammo, and the ammo itself is assumed to be a part of upkeep.

Allocating tonnage/critical slots to ammo is still very much a design of the game and part of the balance. If you want more ammo, just add more. Of course, you run the risk of ammo explosions if that part is hit/lost.

[Path]

Originally posted by GM Pax:

Originally posted by Dorok:

Sigh, missiles have also limited ammo?

Yes.

BUT ... one ton of LRM ammunition is 100 missiles. If all you've got is a single LRM5, that's twenty shots. :)

I have yet to need more than 1 ton of missiles, even for mechs that are relative missile boats (three SRM4s, for example).

Serious LRM boats want at least 4 tons of ammo, but then we're talking mechs that can fire 60 or more per salvo.

[GM Pax]

Originally posted by Kommissar Klose:

When people say "no ammo management" in Battletech, they mean on the strategic level. You don't have to make it a point to salvage SRM ammo or go to a port and buy ammo for your AC20.

And that's a shame, really. It takes away most of the reason to run with lots of Energy weapons: "save on ammo costs".

Or, as I've seen time and again when playing MechWarrior RPG (the tabletop pen-and-pencil game, not the PC game): negotiating salvage rights for _ammunition_ especially, as part of the contract the unit undertakes.

[Cormac]

just as most ppl stated above, both AC and missles need ammo, you can think of the heatsinks for energy weapons as their 'ammo crates' (just with infinite ammo) and thats the balancing factor

for the global unlimited ammo, i would love to see a feature (optional rule?^^) to be forced to buy different ammo, prefered having to watch for different kinds of AC/5 (and so on) ammo that's out there, as stated by GM Pax, not every AC/5 is the same. (if i remember correctly, every AC that deals "5 damage a turn" is called an AC/5, no matter if it is a single heavy bullet or if it's some kind of huge automatic rifle that shoots 20 bullets each time to deal '5 damage')
and to be honest, i would love to see that added to the game, that you now only have to worry about the ammo during the mission, but maybe even be forced to exchange your cool AC/10+++ for a stock one because you can't get the right ammo in the area you are in. (yes, i'm a freak, but i want it to be an optional rule at most, don't want to force this crazy shi* on anyone else^^)

[GM Pax]

Originally posted by Path:

Serious LRM boats want at least 4 tons of ammo, but then we're talking mechs that can fire 60 or more per salvo.

Yeah, I haven't had a chassis suitable for making one of those, yet. :) Heaviest I've ever had, or seen so far, is the 60T Quickdraw I replaced my Blackjack with.