The lore behind the absence of aircrafts

[Captain Butthurt]

Hey everyone,

So this game caught my attention for a number of reasons (I'm a big fan of modular destruction and interactivity it brings), and I was shocked to find out that it actually has a rather well developed lore behind it, and multiple tabletop and videogames set in it.

But a small inconsistency still bothers the back of my mind. For whatever reason I'm yet to encounter any enemy aircrafts and problems they usually bring. I'm really early in campaign, but after reading up some guides I've got a feeling that combat aircrafts are not represented in this game.

Is there any specific lore reason for that? We get to see that combat airplanes with significant firepower are certainly present in the BATTLETECH universe (why wouldn't they?) - the HUGE dropship of that betrayed noble girl was intercepted and shot down by 3 (or four) interceptors right after the first mission.

And that just begs the question - our mechs are big enough, and most are rather clunky - this would make them PERFECT targets for airplanes. There is no word on countermeasures present on mechs, and even if they were, they could probably be overwhelmed quite easily.

So, what's up with the lack of combat aircraft? Is it for gameplay-only reasons (like balance) or there are lore reasons too?

[AccelExhilar]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Hex:

Without them, light mechs would have no use whatsoever. Mechs do incrased melee dmg against vehicles and the best way to take out lots of vehicles is just sprint to them with a light mech and stomp em.

Really? You stomp vehicles with light mechs? That sounds exceedingly dangerous for the light since you can't do a sprint move / jump jet before the attack, and vehicles are rarely in cover. (usually on roads). So I will keep this in mind, but I've never seen that as a strategy worth emplying so far. On the other hand I will definitely stomp a bullpup or galeon that gets too close a medium / heavy.

[Hex]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Samsquanch:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Hex:

Without them, light mechs would have no use whatsoever. Mechs do incrased melee dmg against vehicles and the best way to take out lots of vehicles is just sprint to them with a light mech and stomp em.

Really? You stomp vehicles with light mechs? That sounds exceedingly dangerous for the light since you can't do a sprint move / jump jet before the attack, and vehicles are rarely in cover.

DFA them. If you're in a bad spot, use the morale ability Vigilance. You need a specialized light mech for it with full leg armour tho. :D

Nothing funnier than DFA that breaks your own legs.

[DasaKamov]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Samsquanch:

Does anyone else kind of just wish there were not Tanks / Vehicles in the game at all?

Nope, not at all. The inclusion of vehicles reminds us that not everyone is some average joe stomping around in a trillion-c-bill mech, and that the pirates, independent colonies and local governments on the Periphery have to bolster their militaries with more realistic forces.

It also reminds us that Battletech is not a fictional world OF mechs and mechwarriors; it's just a world that mechs and mechwarriors exist in. You've got countless millions of regular guys and gals serving their nation-state in whatever capacity they can, doing their military duty in tanks and vehicles, hoping they can make it to retirement without getting stepped on by a three-story-tall 60-ton robot.

[The Giant Mimir]

I can understand why they don't appear in a computer game about 'Mechs, because flying is not the centre of attention and development resources are limited.

The lore contains a huge range of military vehicles alongside 'Mechs - including VTOLs and aerospace fighters and bombers. The factor that's never really gone into in detail is why Battlemechs (huge complicated expensive building-sized standing targets) work on the battlefield at all in any environment where there are people in fighters with the ability to mount 'Mech killing weapons. You might see how it wound work where flight was impossible because of environment.

From a theme point of view, you have to ignore this (because 'Mechs are cool), or somehow come up with your own justification - perhaps ubiquitous cheap and effective anti-aircraft munitions exist, perhaps the ability to construct electronics or anything more than primitive avionics has been lost, perhaps two hundred years ago 'Mechs had such potent ECM and electronic defences that nothing can now touch them. Aerospace assets are at least as rare as 'Mechs - more fragile, perhaps - and most planets are struggling to survive - let alone develop effective conventional air forces.

'Mechs are tools of political power as much as military power. The knights that pilot them are celebrities, engage in blood feuds, duel from time to time. By the end of the third succession war, the inner sphere is worn out by the fighting and warfare has devolved into posture, pomp and raids, rather than all-out confrontation. There's no glamour in mounting a gauss rifle on a Yellowjacket VTOL and sniping 'Mechs from miles away.

[Hex]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Shymer:

I can understand why they don't appear in a computer game about 'Mechs, because flying is not the centre of attention and development resources are limited.

The lore contains a huge range of military vehicles alongside 'Mechs - including VTOLs and aerospace fighters and bombers. The factor that's never really gone into in detail is why Battlemechs (huge complicated expensive building-sized standing targets) work on the battlefield at all in any environment where there are people in fighters with the ability to mount 'Mech killing weapons. You might see how it wound work where flight was impossible because of environment.

From a theme point of view, you have to ignore this (because 'Mechs are cool), or somehow come up with your own justification - perhaps ubiquitous cheap and effective anti-aircraft munitions exist, perhaps the ability to construct electronics or anything more than primitive avionics has been lost, perhaps two hundred years ago 'Mechs had such potent ECM and electronic defences that nothing can now touch them. Aerospace assets are at least as rare as 'Mechs - more fragile, perhaps - and most planets are struggling to survive - let alone develop effective conventional air forces.

'Mechs are tools of political power as much as military power. The knights that pilot them are celebrities, engage in blood feuds, duel from time to time. By the end of the third succession war, the inner sphere is worn out by the fighting and warfare has devolved into posture, pomp and raids, rather than all-out confrontation. There's no glamour in mounting a gauss rifle on a Yellowjacket VTOL and sniping 'Mechs from miles away.

You're not really fighting armies in the game, either. Just pirate gangs, convoys and minor targets. It wouldn't make much sense that some pirate outfit hiding in the uninhabitet regions of a planet would have an air force.

[Torriador]

IF you wanted to justify the lack of aerospace fighters in the game from a lore perspective;
(this is just my justification fo it not being included).
Areospace fighters usually contracted to company size or larger outfits.
Their pilots were expensive to contract, the fighters expensive to cover for loss.
True aerospace fighters were sort of rare commodities in the 3025 timeframe.
Similar to the TT their appearance per engagement would probably be pretty low,
(strafe, leave map, circle, enter map, strafe, etc0.
So their use within the game would be akin to trading a mech for an equivalent of an "orbital strike" form another game, every 5 rounds or so.

That's just my personal rationalization for them being absent from the game, and not based on any factual evidence.

[Rabidnid]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Hex:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Samsquanch:

Really? You stomp vehicles with light mechs? That sounds exceedingly dangerous for the light since you can't do a sprint move / jump jet before the attack, and vehicles are rarely in cover.

DFA them. If you're in a bad spot, use the morale ability Vigilance. You need a specialized light mech for it with full leg armour tho. :D

Nothing funnier than DFA that breaks your own legs.

Well there is an achievement for dying in the same DFA that kills the opposing mech. My Spider got that one quite early.

[RedParadize]

If you want to point out inconsistency. I have to mention that 20m tall military mech make absolutely no sense what so ever. But hey, they are just like battleship: Cool but impractical.

[chrome]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Shymer:

The lore contains a huge range of military vehicles alongside 'Mechs - including VTOLs and aerospace fighters and bombers. The factor that's never really gone into in detail is why Battlemechs (huge complicated expensive building-sized standing targets) work on the battlefield at all in any environment where there are people in fighters with the ability to mount 'Mech killing weapons.

There is no such thing as a "mech killing weapon" in terms of one-shot one kill. BT's lore is pretty specific that Mechs rose to precedence because armor technology outpaced weapon accuracy and lethality.

In 3025 even light mechs like the Commando could withstand multiple hits from anything smaller than the largest weapons (PPC, AC/10-20, LRM/20). A mech could simply pack on more armor and more weaponry than anything else. (This game has fudged weapon dmg and other stats to speed things up.)

Aircraft (especially aerospace fighters) weren't used against mechs b/c they were much more valuable than ground vehicles* and it took considerably more time to train someone to pilot a plane than it does to drive a tank. Thus aerospace fighters were usually used to attack non-mech units, or used in space to attack dropships; hopefully destroying all of the mechs before they could even touch down.


* Modern day comparison: Abrams tank costs approx $9M to build. F-14 Tomcat cost $38M.

[Rabidnid]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von RedParadize:

If you want to point out inconsistency. I have to mention that 20m tall military mech make absolutely no sense what so ever. But hey, they are just like battleship: Cool but impractical.

Well yeah, HBS has gone with the mechs are a 100 feet tall. Compare a 80 ton Demolisher to a an 80 ton mech. The exposed surface area is so large the actuall thickness of the armour would be millimeters at best. Mechs are much stupider in execution than they are in concept.

[saice]

Random side note showing my age.

Battletech did not release with air support. It was added later with the book Battletech Aerotech.

[FemmeDracula]

AeroTech, along with CityTech, were boxed sets. BattleTech just had mechs, CityTech added infantry and armor, and AeroTech of course added aerospace fighters and dropships.

[Falkrin]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von saice:

Random side note showing my age.

Battletech did not release with air support. It was added later with the book Battletech Aerotech.

Yea another Old Guy! I remember buying my first Battletech Box set with the name BattleDroids till we got sued by Lucas. Must have been around 10 or so.

[FemmeDracula]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von navmetro:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von saice:

Random side note showing my age.

Battletech did not release with air support. It was added later with the book Battletech Aerotech.

Yea another Old Guy! I remember buying my first Battletech Box set with the name BattleDroids till we got sued by Lucas. Must have been around 10 or so.

For some reason the name Battledroids turned me off, and I regret not picking that game up when I had the chance.

[evilauthor]

We actually sorta see Aerospace Fighters in this game. Rewatch the cinematic where Kamea's Dropship from the intro mission gets blown out of the sky on take off. There's some specks in the distance with contrails which I took to be the fighters shooting the Dropship down.