Jump Jets or Bust?

[gunner]

Hi guys, just wondering is this game all About Jump Jets?

How do you survive with Mechs without Jump Jets? Everything I deploy currently From 3 Skull Missions and Below Have Jump Jets from My Highlander to my Shadowhawk. I just finished the Liberate Panzyr Priority Mission.

[danko9696]

Originally posted by Valen:

I use jump jets on all my mechs until it is no longer feasible. Like 85 tons and higher.
So useful they are. Allows you to get to hard to navigate places quickly and when the enemy gets close .... you can jump behind them and alpha strike their rear. Doing a Death from Above has got me out of some emergency situations - very effective against low tonnage mechs if your pilot skills are adequate.

I find them more useful in this game than any of the previous battletech and mechcommander pc games.

Why is it no longer feasible for 85t and higher?. For a mech having 65+ tons of available weight, 3t more or less for the extra weight of heavy JJs doesn't make much of a difference, and now you can deliver much more easily your firepower when it's needed and where it's needed, or for avoiding potential incoming fire.You can reserve from behind hard cover, and with improved initiative (Master Tactician and/or a Cyclops-Z in the lance) jump + alpha + alpha before the assault target can react.

And if you have long range weapons plus a good rangefinder in your 100t mech then it's a no contest. The JJs allow you to easily maintain optimal distance for you while you're most of the time outside AC20/ML/SRM range, to retreat into cover or to engage at will. And that more than worth a few tons more.

[BoydofZINJ]

i have done a few plays. Jump Jets can be VERY useful or a waste of space. It depends on your play style and tactics. I find either go all in with jump jets or none at all. There are some missions that Jump Jets make it super easy. But a few tons of extra heat sinks, weapons, or armor could be used elsewhere too.... so your choice.

[SertanDoom]

I'm one of the ones that put jump jets on everything- every light, medium, heavy, and the ship's cat have jump jets (when I have the funds, time to install, and catch the cat.)

There have been a few missions that I've found places to hole up in that only a mech with jump jets can reach. My LRM boats deal with the things that can't jump may linebackers deal with the few that can (they usually jump up one at a time).

[wesnef]

Originally posted by Valen:

Doing a Death from Above has got me out of some emergency situations - very effective against low tonnage mechs if your pilot skills are adequate.

This reminded me that I've only ever done a DFA once, for achievement purposes.

I have an aversion to deliberately damaging my own mechs. :)

(I've almost never gone on a building roof in Urban maps, too. I'm always happy to shoot them out from under enemy mechs, though.)

[Jebe457]

I'm in the "I don't understand how anyone legitimately plays this game without JJs on everything" crowd. When I've been forced to operate a Mech without it always has issues with being out of position, out of cover, etc. Hence Mechs without JJs end up taking excessive amounts of damage, not being able to fire effectively for multiple rounds, and just feeling like a massive liability.

However I also run near stock builds with JJs and effectively tend to go Wolverine/Shadow Hawk/Griffin -> Thunderbolt/Grasshopper -> Highlander.

[MortVent]

I use and don't use them. Depends on the missions and terrain.

They can be really helpful on a couple mechs (not needed on fire support units) to easily maneuver and cross terrain/obstacles

There are a lot of missions where being able to jump can allow you to intercept threats or avoid them far easier

And on certain maps you really need them when the target(s) are behind say the ridge on the one map. You all know the one.. where you got to kill the mech that is at the valley behind the big mountain in front of you... And jump jets mean you can get over that mountain faster and get down there to kill it without having to walk all the way around it

[v312ym34n]

With roguetech, there are way better options than jumpjets.

For vanilla BT, jump jets make things much easier/quicker most of the time, except on LRM boats, which don't need LOS.

Also earlier on, your mechs sometimes spawned on inaccessible places and you needed jets just to get down from where you're stuck. It's been fixed, but paranoia keeps me putting at least one jump jet even on LRM boats.

I don't max jumpjets though--3 are enough, which lets you jump a decent distance, and have more weight for weapons/armor. I'd only put more on specialty mechs, a light long jumping scout for recovery missions, for example, or maxed on a murderhopper (grasshopper with ++damage medium and small lasers, pilot with called shot mastery, for maximum chance of headshot at point blank range). I also put them on melee mechs, which are not great in vanilla BT, but still fun.

It is possible to have no jumpjets at all. You can have a lot of long range weapons + one pilot with sensor lock.

If you have brawlers with no jump jets... still doable, but it definitely takes more thought. You're going to have rounds where you move and brace until you get into cover, or even pop vigilant and sprint until you're in position.

[Slimjack]

Originally posted by pete:

Stalkers are LRM boats twin LRM20 +++ 4 Med Lasers +++ Heaps of ammo

I have a Stalker with 6 Large Lasers and it is Beast Mode. It has Max armor enough single heatsinks (i dont have doubles) to alpha strike twice, three times if i used the heat reducing skill on my pilot on the guts skill tree. Also, all lasers are +++ with the 3 accuracy and +10 dmg. So six 50 dmg shots is a really good drill to punch holes in the armor.

[Slimjack]

Also Jump jets are only good on Lights and Mediums. On Heavies it can be ok but putting them on will cost you in damage output typically, because jump jets on heavies are 1 ton each not half a ton like on Lights and Mediums. They are pretty much useless on Assaults, you don't really go far enough distance for the amount of tonnage you put on the mech, 2 tons per jump jet. Also, the extra pip on your evasion is not worth the tonnage either.

[ArcturusRising]

If we were fighting on flat, open ground most of the time, jump jets would be less useful. Due to the uneven terrain on most missions I find jump jets useful on even the assault mechs. I also like how jumping adds evasive chevrons and reduces damage to my mechs, because the enemy misses more often.

[pete]

I can't justify the weight costs of jump Jets especially in heavies and assaults

[Doombringer]

I can - 3 jump jets on a stalker is like getting an engine size increase for 3tons...
(For walk speed, but I pretty much never sprint once the shooting starts...)

Also the short range stalker build (ML+SRM) caps out its hard points before it hits max tonnage, so you lose nothing by putting max jump jets on it.

[danko9696]

Originally posted by Slimjack:

Also Jump jets are only good on Lights and Mediums. On Heavies it can be ok but putting them on will cost you in damage output typically, because jump jets on heavies are 1 ton each not half a ton like on Lights and Mediums. They are pretty much useless on Assaults, you don't really go far enough distance for the amount of tonnage you put on the mech, 2 tons per jump jet. Also, the extra pip on your evasion is not worth the tonnage either.

Try to solo five skull missions without JJs and see how it goes, with or without long range weapons, while it's very easy with JJs (and long range).

[kingarthur772]

Jump Sets raise the mobility of your Mechs. So you have more Range for Walking and Running, esp. for Medium and higher.

I use them if it´s possible with the Management of Armor / Weapons and Specials. Therfore I use less Weapons and Ammo, but I have more Survivablility and Mobility.

It´s everytime a compromise, but a good light Mech and all Mediums + with no Jump Sets are Death Traps. Therfore I upgrade the Armor (Surviveability) and Mobility of my mechs. That has 3 Reasons:

1. You save Money (Repair / complete Buildup) for damaged or destroyed Mechparts. A Standard-Mech-Lance can get with full repairs your complete Contract Money.

2. You can use your Mechs better in the Contract (jump out of Danger or get to an safety / attackposition faster)

3. Your Pilots won´t get hurt so fast if you use the Advantages the Mechs have now.

[danko9696]

Originally posted by kingarthur772:

Jump Sets raise the mobility of your Mechs. So you have more Range for Walking and Running, esp. for Medium and higher.

I use them if it´s possible with the Management of Armor / Weapons and Specials. Therfore I use less Weapons and Ammo, but I have more Survivablility and Mobility.

It´s everytime a compromise, but a good light Mech and all Mediums + with no Jump Sets are Death Traps. Therfore I upgrade the Armor (Surviveability) and Mobility of my mechs. That has 3 Reasons:

1. You save Money (Repair / complete Buildup) for damaged or destroyed Mechparts. A Standard-Mech-Lance can get with full repairs your complete Contract Money.

2. You can use your Mechs better in the Contract (jump out of Danger or get to an safety / attackposition faster)

3. Your Pilots won´t get hurt so fast if you use the Advantages the Mechs have now.

I agree with most but not with the part about light mechs. The cost is just too high, you have low weight JJs but they still represent a very big chunk of your weight budget, plus the cooling required for big jumps also requires much better cooling (which in turn requires even more cooling and weight), plus they can rely much more on evasion (having -15% to hit and higher speed) instead of positional LoS management like you'd do (along with higher armor) with heavier mechs using JJs.