is this game very pretentious`? Or just a little?

[mckracken]

Also it looks like its promoting communism...?

2024 update:
having now played it (and quit after a few hours) i can say, yes it is very pretentious (not so much in the beginning) up to a point where the whole story suffers from wanting to be different...So in a way the great premise moves away further and further from honestly and genuinely telling a story.

for me the exact moment when i couldnt play no longer was inside the church where you encounter the spider guy hanging in the rafters. It was one too many of a character that seemed to be created by being as off kilter, weird for weirdness sake as possible.
His whole backstory was just tiresome pretenious and zero grounded in anything how a genuine human being would "act".

There are a whole lot of dramatic, comedic and suspense elements in this game, that are ZERO earned from the actual events that play out. It all looks very creative on first glance, but there is very little substance behind the story and how its told.

but the worst aspect of this game, is that it is so overwritten and wordy, it gets annoying and or boring. Every time the main character wants to fart, he has a 10minute discussion with his guts if he should or should not. That is neither creative nor does it move the plot forward.

[Cautemoc]

Originally posted by Space is the Place:

Dude she´s not a centrist

She absolutely is a centrist unless you just don't know what a centrist is. She's a centrist, center-right, specifically, supporting economic liberalism and the rule of law (she makes a point that she respects police). She's definitely a centrist.

The union boss is center-left, though that is shaky due to his corruption being a primarily non-political position.

Moralism would be further left-leaning than the center, as they believe in social-democracy, while communism is obviously the far left, with royalism and fascism on the far-right.

Moralist aren´t presented in the game as "the most reasonable people" or the "correct path" or anything, they are presented as boring cowards or people with no backbone to commit to anything

Harry's thoughts are not a good representation of reality, guy. The Moralintern are the only political party that acknowledges and works against the pale. Dolores Dei is one of the most influential people in the .. world history .. and is the peak of moralist though, through her the whole Dolorian Century has been happening with the Moralists in charge, resulting in the most innovation and connection between Isolas ever.... Where are you getting they don't commit to anything? They committed so hard to things they did war crimes in the process.

The Moralists are improving the world, though slowly and some people get left behind, and it takes a certain amount of maturity to see the necessity of that struggle for the stability it brings. The evils of Moralism is that it relies on "great persons" or thought leaders to push things forward, like Dolores Dei, and in the process the average person's life becomes meaningless and small. That's the existential threat that Innocents pose to us, and why they are "ominous" and take away our ability to choose for ourselves. Basically, the Moralintern are correct but flawed, which is pretty much what Kim tells us too.

[Space is the Place]

Originally posted by Cautemoc:

...

Mate... I don´t know what got into you, but I´m gonna step down from this pointless discussion. I think you like Joyce a litttle too much and are projecting some weird things into her, so suddenly according to you she´s not the thing the game describes her as and even herself... K, proof? Cause like, the proof she´s an Ultraliberal is in the game itself, the dialogue, your own dialogue choices.... And if she´s an Ultraliberal she can´t be a Centrist/Moralist, that´s why the game provides 4 political points of views, in fact if you choose Ultraliberal dialogues and then Moralist dialogue, Kim will comment on this at the end saying you are an ultraliberal but also a moralist and that you don´t seem to "realize this contradiction", this dialogue is fixxed on the game whatever you make Harry choice several different political views, signalign the reality that YOU CANNOT BE SEVERAL OF THEM AT THE SAME TIME, NOT IN THE GAME, NOT IN REAL LIFE, NEITHER CAN JOYCE JUST CAUSE YOU WANTED HER TO. (Isn´t embarassing that every point you make there´s actual dialogue in the game contradicting you? For apparently liking the game so much seem there´s A LOT of relevant dialogue you either don´t remeber or don´t understand it would seem)

EDIT: Never mind, I just saw it. 30 hours registered and 8 achievements, no wonder you don´t seem to remeber lots of dialogue, did you even saw them? hahahahaha

And that bit about moralist improving the world... how? again, what proof do you have? The fact Sunday Friend says so? Lots of characters saying a lot of things in this game, did you also bought Measurehead racist speech because that´s also a dialogue in the game?

The moralist do nothing, and the moralist ending is proof of that, period. None of your ramblings are presented in the game in any form, you gotta a strong oppinion, but that´s what it is at the end of the day. Game itself contradicts you, so...

[Hiruken]

wtf is this comment section, cultural expansion is typical of Disco Elysium gamers.

[Cautemoc]

Originally posted by Space is the Place:

Game itself contradicts you, so...

Damn dude you have no idea what you are talking about. Sad. I can't believe you can't even process that someone who believes in rule of law and economic liberalism is center-right. This is why this game is dangerous for people who don't actually understand politics, you come out thinking you're really smart for saying "All sides are equal".

And you've repeatedly signaled you don't know things that the game tells you, and apparently you think Harry joining the Moralintern after discussing the pale with them means they ... do nothing about it? What? Context clues seem to be a weakness of yours.

[Space is the Place]

Originally posted by Cautemoc:

I can't believe you can't even process that someone who believes in rule of law and economic liberalism is center-right.

I didn´t say that, I said Joyce, which is the argument here, wasn´t. And you are confusing real life centrist ideals with the moralist from the game.

Originally posted by Cautemoc:

This is why this game is dangerous for people who don't actually understand politics, you come out thinking you're really smart for saying "All sides are equal".

What are you even talking about? Seriously, you went of the rails instantly because someone disagrees with you. And again, lying, I never said "all sides are equal", I said the game mocks all 4 sides in one way or another, and it does.

Originally posted by Cautemoc:

And you've repeatedly signaled you don't know things that the game tells you, and apparently you think Harry joining the Moralintern after discussing the pale with them means they ... do nothing about it? What? Context clues seem to be a weakness of yours.

This is so rich. Buddy, this whole debate I had to remind you of actual dialogues in game. And yes, the ending of the MOralintern implies nothign was done about the pale, I have the achievement for completing that quest, you don´t. I have seen that ending newspaper, here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0DqNYV2CMc

You tell me where does the final newspaper imply there was something done, that the moralintern did anything other than just kidnap Harry so he wouldn´t talk??

This isn´t even my personal take, it´s wildly spread online that Moralintern ending was the worst and less conclusive, and that it was intentional in tone with how useless the concept of moralism is presented in the game:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DiscoElysium/comments/ztbyrd/spoilers_finishing_the_la_responsabilite_quest_is/

https://www.reddit.com/r/DiscoElysium/comments/mwvm0w/moralist_quest_ending_questions/

You seem to have a hardon for Joyce and Moralism, so it seems you have to trick yourself into thinking they are one and the same. They are not, again, this is all explain in-game dialogue. She says what she is several times, Evran calls her that, harry, Kim... every character who talks about Joyce except the mercenaries does from the perspective she´s an Ultraliberal, and no, in game, Ultraliberals are NOT centrist:

https://discoelysium.fandom.com/wiki/Ultraliberals

But I guess it´s not just me who is wrong, it´s every reddit forum saying how much the ending sucked, how it solved nothing and is as ambiguous as the whole moralist government, it´s the wiki that´s wrong for saying Ultraliberals are right minded or for quoting Joyce as constant reference for Ultraliberal ideals in-game, or how that she´s the one who can trigger the most Ultraliberal responses from Harry for anyone looking for the Ultraliberal thoughs... Eeeeeveryone is wrong. You alone have figure out Joyce is a centrist and actually moralism is the best thing, both in game and in real life (even though you are the only one speaking about real life politics and using this fictional world as example for it... kind of weird buddy), and that ending is the best because you end the Pale or something, apparently, off screen and never mentioned, but you know it so I guess it´s true. Geez, one even has to wonder how do things ended up so badly in the game´s world with such an amazing governent that fixxes all problems and improves the world all days. They certainly did care a lot and had the biggest impact in the investigation, the lynching, the shoot out... so concern.

Make yourself a favor and play some more, your 30 hours and only 8 achievements it´s pathetic. Or at least read the wikia if you gonna pretend to know the game and yet miss every dialogue, quest and plot point that contradicts all your statements.

[Cautemoc]

Originally posted by Space is the Place:

I didn´t say that, I said Joyce, which is the argument here, wasn´t. And you are confusing real life centrist ideals with the moralist from the game.

Yes, Joyce the person I've explained their political stance multiple times now as economic liberalism and rule of law is a centrist. This is not up for debate yet you still tried to because you are so far up your own bum you can't see reason anymore. Now you're probably trying to grasp at straws that centrism in game isn't the same as out of the game or some non-sense.

And yes, the ending of the MOralintern implies nothign was done about the pale

No it doesn't, you are either purposely misrepresenting it or completely missed the point. The Moralintern don't kill Harry, they recruited him, because he's shown a connection to the pale and chose to join them. You can choose to not join them, too, and the game continues, so they are not forcefully dissapearing Harry, he is joining them. You've taken something that the game gives you the option to say "No" to and turned it into some kind of stupid conspiracy theory.

You seem to have a hard-on for yourself, so there's obviously not going to be any productive debate here, so have fun in your imagination-land and believing Reddit.

By the way, here's the definition of center-right politics: "Parties of the centre-right generally support liberal democracy, capitalism, the market economy, private property rights, and a modest welfare state. They support conservatism and economic liberalism and oppose socialism and communism."

So good luck trying to claim Joyce isn't center-right, that's her entire ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ position and she says so multiple times.

[Space is the Place]

Originally posted by Cautemoc:

Yes, Joyce the person I've explained their political stance multiple times now as economic liberalism and rule of law is a centrist.

Dude... for the final time, this is a fictional world, there´s no economic liberalism, there´s Ultraliberals which is what she is. You are using a single line of dialogue where she says "Let me tell you what you are to me officer, to me you are the law" and claiming just because she respects the police, she must be a moralist.

Is then Evran a Nationalist because he employs Measurehead? Is Cindy the Skull not a communist but rather an Ultraliberal because she ask for tons of money for her art? Is the Excecutive on the container a communist because he does helps another person to get richest like his making them more equal?

If I drop 2,000 kilos of sugar on the ocean, the ocean itself will continue to be salty.

Joyce is an Ultraliberal, she´s the actual representation of said political alignment in game. There´s nothing in the Moralist ending suggesting the government did aboslutely nothing about anything. Those things are facts and are presented very clearly in game, PERIOD.

Come back when you have actually seen more than 25% of the content according to your achievements.

[Cautemoc]

Originally posted by Space is the Place:

Dude... for the final time, this is a fictional world, there´s no economic liberalism, there´s Ultraliberals which is what she is.

Yep, called it. When someone is this far gone, they would rather re-define what words mean rather than admit they were wrong. Joyce isn't a centrist because "ultraliberal" isn't economic liberalism...

[strandedMule]

This comment section tells you all you need to know about pretentiousness. But seriously, idk why people are pretending like this game isn't pro communism. Looking at the game devs history will give you an idea.
It's still a pretty game with some interesting ideas. I would suggest not taking it too seriously tho.

[unknown]

Originally posted by strandedMule:

This comment section tells you all you need to know about pretentiousness. But seriously, idk why people are pretending like this game isn't pro communism. Looking at the game devs history will give you an idea.
It's still a pretty game with some interesting ideas. I would suggest not taking it too seriously tho.

To me the communists seemed to be be portrayed as being incredibly problematic. Though the centrists were mocked the most for sure.

[Cautemoc]

Originally posted by unknown:

Originally posted by strandedMule:

This comment section tells you all you need to know about pretentiousness. But seriously, idk why people are pretending like this game isn't pro communism. Looking at the game devs history will give you an idea.
It's still a pretty game with some interesting ideas. I would suggest not taking it too seriously tho.

To me the communists seemed to be be portrayed as being incredibly problematic. Though the centrists were mocked the most for sure.

I legitimately can't take anyone seriously who says this game is pro-communist. The only excuse I can give for them is maybe they didn't actually play the game and see the outcome of anything at all. But no, the most mocked group is definitely the Royalists, following their inbred, drug-obsessed king.

[mckracken]

ive decided that next year im finally playing the game.
so i can school everyone....until then you might as well stop doing your pointless little discussions.....

[Spears]

Originally posted by mckracken:

ive decided that next year im finally playing the game.
so i can school everyone....until then you might as well stop doing your pointless little discussions.....

you started it dumbass

[unknown]

Originally posted by Cautemoc:

Originally posted by unknown:

To me the communists seemed to be be portrayed as being incredibly problematic. Though the centrists were mocked the most for sure.

I legitimately can't take anyone seriously who says this game is pro-communist. The only excuse I can give for them is maybe they didn't actually play the game and see the outcome of anything at all. But no, the most mocked group is definitely the Royalists, following their inbred, drug-obsessed king.

They either have not played the game or are one of those people who sees any critique of capitalism as being pro-communism. Possibly they didn't run through all the paths. Who knows. Either way it sufficiently mocks everyone. Not necessarily equally as the royalists and moralists definately get it a bit harder. Not to mention "WÖMAN" but regardless it does not present any ideology as being the true way to go or anything like that.

[Ryan]

Yes, the game has a leftist (marxist-communist) bias, don't let anyone tell you otherwise, if they do they'll be exercising either wishful thinking or ideological blindness. The thing is, the developers knew what they were onto, this game is not a western redditor socialist rant. You can see the almost palpable influence of Dialetic Materialism (the idea of a linear historical progression, and an end of history for example) in some of the game's mythos. Yes, the game makes fun of all the ideologies it presents, in a way, but it is still obviously left biased. Having said that, the game is still a piece of art, the plot is extremely well written, the art is great, it's worth a shot no matter the side of the spectrum you are. There are even some very nuanced "traditionalist" characters such as Rene Arveaux, a monarchist war hero. (I'm a far right individual myself, and I can say this game pleased me grandly, despite its flaws).