Communism?

[mutexin]

Is the highest rated game on metacritic just a piece of communist propaganda? I've never seen so much communism in any other game.

[mutexin]

Originally posted by specteX:

so???

Hello, comrade. Do you also feel that infra-materialism?

[TrantaLocked]

The game shows the worst of all sides. The main capitalist figure injects scabs and mercs and the union leader is corrupt and overly demanding. One isolated communist solider is just a bloodthirsy crazy person. This game is not pro-communist, it just explores different politic ideologies, and mainly, it aims to show you the worst and best in people in this context.

[mitchincredible]

Originally posted by mutexin:

Is the highest rated game on metacritic just a piece of communist propaganda? I've never seen so much communism in any other game.

My disappointment is it feels like they made a parody of lysenkoism and made it sound like a good thing.

The overall 'critique' of communism though is communists are failures and the only hope they have is in the collective strength of people to believe in communism enough for it to work.

[mitchincredible]

Originally posted by TrantaLocked:

The game shows the worst of all sides. The main capitalist figure injects scabs and mercs and the union leader is corrupt and overly demanding. One isolated communist solider is just a bloodthirsy crazy person. This game is not pro-communist, it just explores different politic ideologies, and mainly, it aims to show you the worst and best in people in this context.

True - I mean they made the union leader a scummy guy with used car salesman vibes. The developers actually made a balanced critique of issues with modern worker organisation and communist ideology.

I'd say though they seem to have a sense of sympathy for communism - they portrayed communists as ineffective failures whereas every other ideology in the game is intrinsically malicious.

[TrantaLocked]

Originally posted by mitchincredible:

Originally posted by TrantaLocked:

The game shows the worst of all sides. The main capitalist figure injects scabs and mercs and the union leader is corrupt and overly demanding. One isolated communist solider is just a bloodthirsy crazy person. This game is not pro-communist, it just explores different politic ideologies, and mainly, it aims to show you the worst and best in people in this context.

True - I mean they made the union leader a scummy guy with used car salesman vibes. The developers actually made a balanced critique of issues with modern worker organisation and communist ideology.

I'd say though they seem to have a sense of sympathy for communism - they portrayed communists as ineffective failures whereas every other ideology in the game is intrinsically malicious.

Never got that idea from the game. Maybe the Moralists were painted more harshly, but all sides were painted harshly. Hardie boys are crap - just not as crap as the mercs, deserter is the most crap, evrart also crap but less obvious, measurehead crap, moralists crap (allegedly but likely, since info on them is mostly presented via heresay), joyce complicit in crap.

The only thing I noticed that could make it seem more partial to communism is the lingering communist relics everywhere from the revolution, but this is just the game's setting and not representative of anything further. It really seemed to me, that the only people not crap in the game were those not involved in politics. Like the characters in the church and cryptozoology. Perhaps the message is that getting involved in politics makes you corrupt?

Do you have specific examples that make it seem like the devs had sympathy for communism, perhaps more than the other sides? Maybe I missed parts of the story that made it more clear. I didn't play any of the added opt-in quests and it's been a while since I played the part where you talk to Joyce in depth. Maybe it's the communism opt-in quest that makes it seem that way?

[mutexin]

Originally posted by TrantaLocked:

Originally posted by mitchincredible:

True - I mean they made the union leader a scummy guy with used car salesman vibes. The developers actually made a balanced critique of issues with modern worker organisation and communist ideology.

I'd say though they seem to have a sense of sympathy for communism - they portrayed communists as ineffective failures whereas every other ideology in the game is intrinsically malicious.

Never got that idea from the game. Maybe the Moralists were painted more harshly, but all sides were painted harshly. Hardie boys are crap - just not as crap as the mercs, deserter is the most crap, evrart also crap but less obvious, measurehead crap, moralists crap (allegedly but likely, since info on them is mostly presented via heresay), joyce complicit in crap.

The only thing I noticed that could make it seem more partial to communism is the lingering communist relics everywhere from the revolution, but this is just the game's setting and not representative of anything further. It really seemed to me, that the only people not crap in the game were those not involved in politics. Like the characters in the church and cryptozoology. Perhaps the message is that getting involved in politics makes you corrupt?

Do you have specific examples that make it seem like the devs had sympathy for communism, perhaps more than the other sides? Maybe I missed parts of the story that made it more clear. I didn't play any of the added opt-in quests and it's been a while since I played the part where you talk to Joyce in depth. Maybe it's the communism opt-in quest that makes it seem that way?

I have no idea why people here always start talking about game characters when they hear "communism"? Is that how you judge about things in general? Do you understand that ideology has nothing to do with any particular individuals?

And if you seek a reference to the adepts of communism in the game, that's Steban and Ulixes. They are also an obvious reference to the authors. But the biggest communist is: ..., guess who. The protagonist.
There are very few ideologists in the game, I consider only those characters as such: Mega Rich Light-Bending Guy, Steban and Ulixes, René Arnoux, Joyce Messier, Measurehead.

Anyways, an ideology is not defined by people supporting or (mis)using it.

[TrantaLocked]

Originally posted by mutexin:

Originally posted by TrantaLocked:

Never got that idea from the game. Maybe the Moralists were painted more harshly, but all sides were painted harshly. Hardie boys are crap - just not as crap as the mercs, deserter is the most crap, evrart also crap but less obvious, measurehead crap, moralists crap (allegedly but likely, since info on them is mostly presented via heresay), joyce complicit in crap.

The only thing I noticed that could make it seem more partial to communism is the lingering communist relics everywhere from the revolution, but this is just the game's setting and not representative of anything further. It really seemed to me, that the only people not crap in the game were those not involved in politics. Like the characters in the church and cryptozoology. Perhaps the message is that getting involved in politics makes you corrupt?

Do you have specific examples that make it seem like the devs had sympathy for communism, perhaps more than the other sides? Maybe I missed parts of the story that made it more clear. I didn't play any of the added opt-in quests and it's been a while since I played the part where you talk to Joyce in depth. Maybe it's the communism opt-in quest that makes it seem that way?

I have no idea why people here always start talking about game characters when they hear "communism"? Is that how you judge about things in general? Do you understand that ideology has nothing to do with any concrete individuals?

And if you seek a reference to the adepts of communism in the game, that's Steban and Ulixes. They are also an obvious reference to the authors. But the biggest communist is: ..., guess who. The protagonist.
There are very few ideologists in the game, I consider only those characters as such: Mega Rich Light-Bending Guy, Steban and Ulixes, René Arnoux, Joyce Messier, Measurehead.

Anyways, an ideology is not defined by people supporting or (mis)using it.

You just ruined the thread with your reactionary, arrogant trash of a comment, but I will humor you.

We're talking about what in the game points to the developers being sympathetic to communism, and obviously the characters would be the starting point. If a character "misuses" an ideology, that is one point of evidence AGAINST the developer being sympathetic to that ideology, because the ideology is being painted in a harsher light by implying more flawed individuals subscribe to and/or are produced by it.

Stebam and Ulixes were not characters I came across and I believe their questline was added with the final cut. Most people won't come across them either. But there are four added side quests for each of the opt in paths. I LITERALLY said this in my previous comment and instead of providing the information, you chose to be a jerk about it.

If a character in a side quest most people aren't even going to find is a good representation of communism or any ideology, that's fine, but being a good representation does NOT equate to being the "real," or only, representation. And in the context of the previous conversation, before you derailed it, it's just a point of evidence in favor of the devs being sympathetic towards an ideology.

The main character is not a communist, he's what you want him to be. The dialogue you choose is your choice. Asking for money is your choice. Opting in to an ideology is your choice. You don't even understand the basis of how the game works.

Please at least try to follow the conversation before you come out high on your own ego. If you continue to troll I will just report and block you.

[mutexin]

Originally posted by TrantaLocked:

Originally posted by mutexin:

I have no idea why people here always start talking about game characters when they hear "communism"? Is that how you judge about things in general? Do you understand that ideology has nothing to do with any concrete individuals?

And if you seek a reference to the adepts of communism in the game, that's Steban and Ulixes. They are also an obvious reference to the authors. But the biggest communist is: ..., guess who. The protagonist.
There are very few ideologists in the game, I consider only those characters as such: Mega Rich Light-Bending Guy, Steban and Ulixes, René Arnoux, Joyce Messier, Measurehead.

Anyways, an ideology is not defined by people supporting or (mis)using it.

You just ruined the thread with your reactionary, arrogant trash of a comment, but I will humor you.

We're talking about what in the game points to the developers being sympathetic to communism, and obviously the characters would be the starting point. If a character "misuses" an ideology, that is one point of evidence AGAINST the developer being sympathetic to that ideology, because the ideology is being painted in a harsher light by implying more flawed individuals subscribe to and/or are produced by it.

Stebam and Ulixes were not characters I came across and I believe their questline was added with the final cut. Most people won't come across them either. But there are four added side quests for each of the opt in paths. I LITERALLY said this in my previous comment and instead of providing the information, you chose to be a jerk about it.

If a character in a side quest most people aren't even going to find is a good representation of communism or any ideology, that's fine, but being a good representation does NOT equate to being the "real," or only, representation. And in the context of the previous conversation, before you derailed it, it's just a point of evidence in favor of the devs being sympathetic towards an ideology.

The main character is not a communist, he's what you want him to be. The dialogue you choose is your choice. Asking for money is your choice. Opting in to an ideology is your choice. You don't even understand the basis of how the game works.

Please at least try to follow the conversation before you come out high on your own ego. If you continue to troll I will just report and block you.

WTF? I haven't been rude to you. But you attempt to insult me. Do you just project your own behaviour onto me?

"We're talking about what in the game points to the developers" Who are "we"? Please speak for yourself. If you didn't notice, I AM the OP. The topic of the thread is also defined be the original post. I'm curiuos what made you so combative.

"I LITERALLY said this in my previous comment" I have no idea what you are talking about and what comment you mention, buddy.

"because the ideology is being painted in a harsher light" That's a logical fallacy. We, the smart people, often criticise what we like, not because we want it to drown, but because we want it to become better, flawless.

"The main character is not a communist, he's what you want him to be." Not really, that's an illusion. In the beginning I always chose the opposite path of being communist, but the game still battered me with communist thoughts and dialog options until I noticed the communist way is objectively the best in the game.

"Please at least try to follow the conversation before you come out high on your own ego." I think you addressed this to yourself. See the OP.

[Hopper-King]

Originally posted by mutexin:

I have no idea why people here always start talking about game characters when they hear "communism"? Is that how you judge about things in general? Do you understand that ideology has nothing to do with any concrete individuals?

i think it's two things:
1, the way the op question was phrased, it wasn't if the game was communist,
it was asking if the game was propaganda.
2, corporate marketing using current political ideologies to market games is pretty much all people talk about now. not solid core mechanics or satisfying gameplay loops,
so people are already thinking about it from that angle.

as far as how communism is portrayed, i think people's personal choices in the game color their feelings of the game in general.
the game itself seems to try to balance this by having two polar opposites thinking of themselves as communists in joyce and evrart.

slight typo with concrete instead of discrete.
didn't read the two posts after, they both started aggro and tbh were too long,
so it didn't appeal to me.

[TrantaLocked]

Originally posted by mutexin:

Originally posted by TrantaLocked:

You just ruined the thread with your reactionary, arrogant trash of a comment, but I will humor you.

We're talking about what in the game points to the developers being sympathetic to communism, and obviously the characters would be the starting point. If a character "misuses" an ideology, that is one point of evidence AGAINST the developer being sympathetic to that ideology, because the ideology is being painted in a harsher light by implying more flawed individuals subscribe to and/or are produced by it.

Stebam and Ulixes were not characters I came across and I believe their questline was added with the final cut. Most people won't come across them either. But there are four added side quests for each of the opt in paths. I LITERALLY said this in my previous comment and instead of providing the information, you chose to be a jerk about it.

If a character in a side quest most people aren't even going to find is a good representation of communism or any ideology, that's fine, but being a good representation does NOT equate to being the "real," or only, representation. And in the context of the previous conversation, before you derailed it, it's just a point of evidence in favor of the devs being sympathetic towards an ideology.

The main character is not a communist, he's what you want him to be. The dialogue you choose is your choice. Asking for money is your choice. Opting in to an ideology is your choice. You don't even understand the basis of how the game works.

Please at least try to follow the conversation before you come out high on your own ego. If you continue to troll I will just report and block you.

WTF? I haven't been rude to you. But you attempt to insult me. Do you just project your own behaviour onto me?

"We're talking about what in the game points to the developers" Who are "we"? Please speak for yourself. If you didn't notice, I AM the OP. The topic of the thread is also defined be the original post. I'm curiuos what made you so combative.

"I LITERALLY said this in my previous comment" I have no idea what you are talking about and what comment you mention, buddy.

"because the ideology is being painted in a harsher light" That's a logical fallacy. We, the smart people, often criticise what we like, not because we want it to drown, but because we want it to become better, flawless.

"The main character is not a communist, he's what you want him to be." Not really, that's an illusion. In the beginning I always chose the opposite path of being communist, but the game still battered me with communist thoughts and dialog options until I noticed the communist way is objectively the best in the game.

"Please at least try to follow the conversation before you come out high on your own ego." I think you addressed this to yourself. See the OP.

Yeah you're a troll. Expected from someone who made a thread thinking Disco Elysium is propaganda for any political ideology, probably because you grew up with identity politics shoved down your throat by your parents and school.

[mitchincredible]

The only character I can think of who is openly communist and reprehensible is at the end of the game and even then THAT character could be considered to have some severe mental health issues.

All other 'communist' characters have relatable reasons for the actions or they're not communists - they're grifting communism.

My argument without spoiling too much is unlike the other political affiliations in the game is even the 'bad' communist characters are pretty forgivable.

[Hopper-King]

there should be some consideration for the fact that communism is also one of the things related to "doloris dei" that repeatedly pops up.
(where are the angry "THIS GAME IS PROPAGANDA FOR THE VIDEO STORE AT THE END OF THE STREET" threads?)

[Zolf]

Originally posted by Hopper-King:

there should be some consideration for the fact that communism is also one of the things related to "doloris dei" that repeatedly pops up.
(where are the angry "THIS GAME IS PROPAGANDA FOR THE VIDEO STORE AT THE END OF THE STREET" threads?)

Just jumping in to say that Dolores Dei (the in-game historical figure, not Harry's ex-fiancée) is explitly anti-communist - she is the representation of Moralism, the ideology that crushed the communist revolution, as well as an imperialist (ie, the highest stage of capitalism). She's the polar opposite of a communist haha.

[mutexin]

Originally posted by Zolf:

Originally posted by Hopper-King:

there should be some consideration for the fact that communism is also one of the things related to "doloris dei" that repeatedly pops up.
(where are the angry "THIS GAME IS PROPAGANDA FOR THE VIDEO STORE AT THE END OF THE STREET" threads?)

Just jumping in to say that Dolores Dei (the in-game historical figure, not Harry's ex-fiancée) is explitly anti-communist - she is the representation of Moralism, the ideology that crushed the communist revolution, as well as an imperialist (ie, the highest stage of capitalism). She's the polar opposite of a communist haha.

"Dolores Dei is an innocence of humanism, internationalism and welfare state..."

[Hopper-King]

hmm. i'm gonna need to pay more attention whenever i do another playthrough,
i got the impression she was some kinda marie antoinette figure.