Make teleporters more visible

[e doctor]

This wasn't a problem in the first game because you could see at least half of the map on screen at all times given the 2D perspective, smaller maps, and the teleporter was easily visible since it was highlighted red. Now in 3D, the teleporter has no outline or indicator. Given the game's dark-ish color pallette, it's very easy to blend into the rest of the ground.
Currently, the teleporter needs to give off a specific sound or visual to cue players in if they're getting closer.
At least give us a minimap so that we can keep track of what we've already explored. There is no reason a player should be circling the map actively ignoring enemies just to find the teleporter to go to the next level.

[Lunacy]

They already did make them more visible. On that patch it became almost too easy to find the teleporter.
But yeah sometimes there's some grey on its grey and it blends. If it weren't for the embers you'd never find it sometimes.

[Horrible Orbit]

Interesting. Why would making the teleporter harder to find be a design goal in and of itself? What do the players that wanted it to be hard to find get out of it?

[Ittrix]

It's not like it's my goal for the game to become an interactive "Where's Waldo?" picture book, I just don't think I should be able to see it the moment I spawn in. I should have to go around the map a little beforehand. I find 3 minutes is more than enough time for me to track down the location of the teleporter and turn it on.

If it was immediately visible there'd be...
Less incentive for new players to explore the area
Less time spent familiarizing yourself with non-boss enemies
Less Combat shrine, blood shrine, and challenge of the mountain shrine use (Unless these are all gonna have separate beacons of light too; they're not much use after the teleporter event)
Less time management
Less split second decision making while going around the map

Are all of these things 100% needed in the game? Nah, they're objective. But they're kinda carrying the same spirit of the previous game.


What do we gain by immediately making it visible?
Sure, there's the obvious "help players who can't find it" but I mean... ya'll should be able to figure it out, honestly. The radius on particles is huge, large portions of the maps are visible from one location, and there's a fairly limited number of spots where you couldn't see the particles that you could check.

The teleporter isn't really that hard to find now as is. You just have to move your feet a little. I really have to wonder if there's some graphics setting you can flip off or on that makes the particles way more difficult to see or something, because the particles stick out like a sore thumb to me in every map except scorched acres.

[Regrettable Acts in 1 Step]

I think the same effect that Shrine of the Mountain has on the tele should just be implemented -- The first game did that as well and noone had any issue with it. Either a telporter icon always being on top or a red outline when you're near it could save a lot of trouble on maps like in wetland aspect for example.

[Horrible Orbit]

The clearest benefit of making the teleporter easy to find is one you've mentioned in your post - time management. Knowing where the teleporter is has never been reason enough for me to leave a level, except for the first one in a playthrough every so often...

Point being, as someone who's spent several combined hours of time looking for teleporters, I'd very much appreciate the option to (re-)find the teleporter quickly so that I can leave a level once I've satisfactorily desolated it.

[Ittrix]

Originally posted by Horrible Orbit:

The clearest benefit of making the teleporter easy to find is one you've mentioned in your post - time management. Knowing where the teleporter is has never been reason enough for me to leave a level, except for the first one in a playthrough every so often...

Point being, as someone who's spent several combined hours of time looking for teleporters, I'd very much appreciate the option to (re-)find the teleporter quickly so that I can leave a level once I've satisfactorily desolated it.

It's not been reason for me to leave, but it's been reason to re-organize how I travel around a level. I tend to poke around some other areas first, instead of continuing to loot in a straight line to the teleporter. That would be back-tracking.
So there's some dynamic gameplay that happens when the teleporter isn't just available straight from the get go.
And if you have four times the man-power? Yikes.

Once you've found a teleporter should it stay outlined or pinged or whatever? Sure. I've never really intentionally argued against that.
I just don't like the idea of knowing where it is before I've poked around for it some.

[Horrible Orbit]

I'm the type that pokes around anyway, regardless of whether or not I've found the teleporter, and I don't mind backtracking since ROR2 tends to automatically sprinkle some fights in between any one area and the next. It looks like playstyle is what makes the difference here.

When I play ROR2, I tend to scour the landscape for boxes and get into fights with the enemies as a goal in and of itself, and leave a level when everything's sufficiently dead and/or looted. If my main goal were to get to the teleporter and complete the level, I'd probably have similar reservations about making the teleporter easier to find. Maybe there aught to be a slider in the graphics menu that determines the visibility of the teleporter('s glowing particles). That way any changes would be on an opt-in basis.

[Ap2000]

Originally posted by Ittrix:

It's not like it's my goal for the game to become an interactive "Where's Waldo?" picture book, I just don't think I should be able to see it the moment I spawn in.

Unless you have a clear line of sight, that's impossible anyway.
Just making the whole thing brighter or adding some kind of glowing orbs at the spikes' tops would help immensly. I'm not expecting them to remodel the whole thing etc.

[Ittrix]

Originally posted by Ap2000:

Originally posted by Ittrix:

It's not like it's my goal for the game to become an interactive "Where's Waldo?" picture book, I just don't think I should be able to see it the moment I spawn in.

Unless you have a clear line of sight, that's impossible anyway.
Just making the whole thing brighter or adding some kind of glowing orbs at the spikes' tops would help immensly. I'm not expecting them to remodel the whole thing etc.

I wasn't gonna mention it, but after that post I hopped into 5 drizzle games in a row.
In 3 of the games I could see the teleporter particles from where I spawned.
In 1 game I took an air-vent and spotted the teleporter on the other side of the map.
In 1 game I couldn't see the teleporter and figured it was on the upper ridge of titanic plains between the two hills, since that was the only spot I could think of that could hide particles. It was there.
Imo, very large radius that enables me to find it and pretty easy to find.

I'd hardly call it science because it was just the first two maps, but aside from the swamp and scorched acres the other maps aren't exactly filled with obstructions large enough to stop you from spotting the particles.

3 times from spawn
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1926983793 (upper area of distant roost)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1926983802 (lower canyon in titanic plains)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1926983838 (basin in distant roost)

Vantage point
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1926983821 (other side of the map on the other side of the arch. Hard to see particles in photo but steam caps are bad.)

Can't see it!
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1926983920 (Looks like there's a particle in the pic, but it's a chance shrine. Again, steam caps are bad.)

Probably between the two hills I guess.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1926983938 (It was.)

[msarge]

After you play a bit it does become easier to find the tele, but it still sometimes takes forever for me to find it, especially on Scorched Acres. They did already increase the amount and range of particles once, but I still think they could make it a tiny bit easier to find, esp for new players.

I personally like the idea of an indicator popping up after a certain amount of time. It might even help emphasize how important time is with this game. A red outline could be good too.

None of this will really help make it easier to find on Scorched Acres if it's tucked in one of the hidden spots. It doesn't help that the particles blend right in with the level.

[Ittrix]

I mean I do get the idea that some experience factors into it.
I know exactly how particles look close up versus far away. When I spotted it from across the map, I didn't see red and go "ooh, teleporter", I saw a bunch of particles sparkling in and out and went "yep, that's probably it."
in the same sense, when I saw a chance shrine from across the map I didn't think it was a particle because it didn't sparkle and stayed still.
I also know the spots in maps where the particles wouldn't stick out, which is demonstrated by my guess above on Titanic Plains.

Still, you can learn these things. I'm guessing a good portion of people do. Learning and improving is kind of the deal with arcade games and roguelites or likes or whatever.

Scorched acres also sucks. Least favorite stage. High five.

[Horrible Orbit]

Alright, Ittrix, I'll indulge you. The only screenshot I can see either the teleporter or the particles in is the last one in your previous post, because it's a picture of the teleporter itself. Also, it's probably safe to assume that most people look through the place between the two hills in Titanic Plains because there's usually loot around there.

In fact, in my 50 hours with ROR2 there's never been a time where I've made any deliberate effort to avoid any part of any map. There've still been times I spend 30+ minutes wandering around a level trying to find the teleporter. It's safe to say that if the teleporter and/or its particles are exactly as easy to see as they are in your first three screenshots, I'd never find it. On a side note, Scorched Acres really should have a differently colored teleporter and particles.

[Ittrix]

Originally posted by Horrible Orbit:

Alright, Ittrix, I'll indulge you. The only screenshot I can see either the teleporter or the particles in is the last one in your previous post, because it's a picture of the teleporter itself. Also, it's probably safe to assume that most people look through the place between the two hills in Titanic Plains because there's usually loot around there.

Originally posted by Ittrix:

Hard to see particles in photo but steam caps are bad.)

There's a few visible in every one but the one I commented on, but I guess it's safer to say that I'm not "seeing" the particles when I notice them.
It's closer to that I'm noticing something that was just there wasn't. They kinda sparkle in and out, and that's what I notice. Still fairly obvious once I know to look for it. Nothing else glitters. It's a lot more obvious when not in steam cap and not a still image.

If you're calling me a liar who just took pictures of thin air for some reason, I'm happy to hop into a few games with you and ping where I think the teleporter is. I'm legit finding it that quickly, and it'd be quick enough to show.

[Horrible Orbit]

Whether you're a liar or not, screenshots where the teleporter is pinged would be far better proof. The ping icon changes from the usual green circle thing to a yellow, forked icon when it's aimed directly at a teleporter, and the game timer will be visible in the top right corner to prove that you really do find them as fast as you've said you do.

It's worth noting that the ramifications of that aren't as impactful as you seem to believe. You could use screenshots to prove that it's possible for *you* to find teleporters reliably and quickly, but screenshots can't demonstrate that factors like eyesight and luck can be factored completely out with a certain type of skill. That said, I encourage you to take those screenshots anyway. They can prove that these things can be done in the first place, which is still important.

[Ittrix]

I don't usually have a clear line of sight from me to the teleporter so I can't ping it as soon as I know where it is. As you've (or someone else) said, direct line of sight can be ruined by nooks and crannies, but the particles are just as much of an indicator. I can't ping the teleporter directly until I have direct line of sight, though.
Doing it in 10 seconds proves nothing as I could have spawned on top of it, whereas doing it in 40 seconds might've just been my travel time to actually get there and not showing it takes awhile to find it.

So to resolve these issues, I'm going to take a picture of me pinging in the general direction I think the teleporter is in as soon as I have an idea, then pinging the actual teleporter when I get there. It shows how long it took me to actually get there and gives an idea of distance traveled, while also showing the earliest I know (or have an idea) of where the teleporter is. Obviously doesn't work for "well I don't see it but I know of several places it might be when I don't see it" situations too well unless there's only one of 'em, so I'm excluding those unless there's only one of 'em. I can explicitly fish for those situations as well if we want, but not today.


Since I don't want to spam this forum page with too many screenshots (I did 12 trials, 2 pictures each unless I got lucky and immediately had line of sight), I'm gonna pick a few out to show and leave a link to all of them if anyone's curious.
https://steamcommunity.com/id/Ittrix/screenshots/

Trial #1
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1927969749
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1927969758

Trial #2
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1927969774
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1927969790

Trial #11 (Got lucky)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1927975162

I think this shows it's very possible to pick up the tricks and pretty consistently find the teleporter quickly, though I admit if your eyes aren't the best or you're colorblind particles may elude you.

I have noticed it's pretty rare that a teleporter is immediately in view, so I think I actually wouldn't mind an alternate color/glow (as long as it's not a big radius) for the teleporter. In the same sense, if they shrunk down the particle radius but made them denser/bigger/brighter, I wouldn't mind.
Like I said, it's not that I want the teleporter to be hard to see, I just think it shouldn't be seen immediately.